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| Aug-21-06 | | ganstaman: Is it that hard to include the x when capturing a piece? That is the standard for algebraic notation, and it makes following the game so much easier. Also, 6...g6 should at the least be 6...hg6 or something. I know there's only one pawn that can take on g6, but the convention is to list it anyway. Plus, that would make the game readable by a pgn reader/viewer thing. I'm sure it's an exciting game, but far too much work to follow. |
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| Aug-22-06 | | ughaibu: Amazing, the moves are quite uncontroversial, all you need to do is click your mouse using sjkbase on this site, and that's "far too much work"? |
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| Aug-22-06 | | ganstaman: <using sjkbase on this site> I have no idea what this is. I view games using other tools. But that's still besides the point since you are presenting your game in algebraic notation and not doing it right. Moves like 6...g6 aren't readable to all readers, and if a human tries to follow this game blindfold (as I first attempted), the lack of 'x's will completely throw him off. The x is supposed to be there for a reason -- it lets you know a capture is taking place so that you know that the square being moved to was previously occupied. It's like that thing where you type your message, but rearrange all the letters of each word (except the first and last letter). The sentence is still fully readable, but it's incorrect and can't be read quite as fast. There's no reason to do it wrong when you can just as easily do it right. |
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| Aug-22-06 | | ughaibu: This is short algebraic, of course it's "right". It is completely uncontroversial, anyone can understand it and playing through the game requires a few mouse clicks. If you're not interested in the game, fine, but the claim that it's "far too much work" is ridiculous. |
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| Aug-22-06 | | ganstaman: No, it's wrong. Look it up. Short algebraic notation requires the x to indicate captures. End of story. There should not be any questioning this since it's an easily verifiable fact. In case you want it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebr... "The form most commonly used, and primarily described here, is also called abbreviated (or short) algebraic notation or SAN" followed by "Within the SAN (Standard Algebraic Notation) standard, the "x" capture indication is always required" Also, ambiguous or not, the x makes the game 1000000 times easier to follow blindfold. And what if you messed up some of the notation (e instead of d, or 5 instead of 4)? Having the x in place helps us to realize what it is you really meant. So, how can I click through your game on this site? |
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| Aug-22-06 | | ughaibu: I'll ask Schiller if this notation has a formal name other than "short algebraic". To play through a game, set your options to sjkbase and use any game page. |
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Aug-22-06
 | | Eric Schiller: Short algebraic usually leavwes out csaptures and checks and is used in publications Chess Informants where space haswalways been a major onsideration. Standard algebraic is the form used by USCF and marks captures and checks. Long-form algebraic uses both start and destibation sqaure and captures and checks. Computerese is just start and destination squares. |
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| Aug-22-06 | | ughaibu: Eric Schiller: Thanks. |
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| Aug-22-06 | | ganstaman: I just googled ["short algebraic notation" chess] again and clicked on every link on the first page. Not one source says that leaving out the x is acceptable. I've never seen a Chess Informant so I can't comment on this discrepancy. In the end though, the x still serves the important purpose of alerting the reader that a capture is taking place. There's a reason it's there, and I can't find a reason for ommitting it here. So what's the difference between the sjkbase and a real chess board? Both seem to require me to input the moves one at a time. I was talking about putting the moves through a pgn reader/viewer/whatever so that the game can be easily played out. pgn readers don't understand 6...g6 |
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| Aug-22-06 | | ughaibu: If it's far too much work, dont bother. It's a pretty frivolous game, in any case. |
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| Aug-22-06 | | ganstaman: It's not as much about the work as it's me wondering why you are so against including the x? If you're that into saving space, why not remove the move numbers and spaces between moves? The game will still be represented uniquely and nothing will be ambiguous. But like leaving out the numbers and the spaces, leaving out the x makes the game harder to follow. So why would you do it? I just don't understand. |
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| Aug-22-06 | | ughaibu: It's not about saving space, it's about redundancy. Move numbers are useful for reference. Compare shogi notation, which makes no indication of capture, check or non-promotion, I've never heard anyone claim that this causes any difficulties of understanding. |
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| Sep-01-06 | | yanez: My fav. opening of all time has got to be 2...f5 3.♘xe5 ♘c6 4.♕h5+ g6 5.♘xg6 ♘f6 6.♕h3 ♙xg6 7.♕xh8 ♕e7 = |
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| Sep-01-06 | | yanez: Or 2...f5 3.♗c4 fxe4 4.♘xe5 ♕g5 which is brilliant |
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| Sep-01-06 | | NateDawg: <yanez> Why do you say the position is equal after 1. e4 e5 2. ♘f3 f5 3. ♘xe5 ♘c6 4. ♕h5+ g6 5. ♘xg6 ♘f6 6. ♕h3 hxg6 7. ♕xh8 ♕e7? After 8. d3 fxe4 9. dxe4 ♕xe4+ 10. ♗e3 White has a much better position. Black would be much better off if he played 3...♘f6 Then White must play 4. ♗c4 ♕e7 5. d4 d6 since after 4. exf5 ♕e7 5. ♕e2 d6 6. ♘f3 ♘c6 Black is equal. Another common move in the Latvian gambit is 3...♕f6. Then after 4. d4 d6 5. ♘c4 (the only way to retain an advantage) fxe4 6. ♘c3 ♕g6 7. f3 White has only a small advantage (+0.72). 
click for larger view |
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| Sep-01-06 | | NateDawg: <yanez> Your other line, 3. ♗c4 fxe4 4. ♘xe5 ♕g5 could hardly be described as brilliant, as after 5. ♘f7 ♕xg2 6. ♖f1 d5! 7. ♘xh8 (7. Bxd5? Bg4 traps the Queen) dxc4 8. ♕h5+ g6 9. ♕xh7 ♗e6 10. ♕xg6+ ♕xg6 11. ♘xg6 ♗d6 Black is down a pawn and the exchange and has little compensation (+1.28). Better is 3...b5!. After 4. ♗xb5 fxe4 5. ♘xe5 ♕g5 6. d4 ♕xg2 7. ♖f1 c6 8. ♗e2 d6 9. ♘g4 h5 10. ♘e3 ♕xh2 Black is better (-0.52) 
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| Sep-01-06 | | ughaibu: For the second line see this game: R Kobs vs P Hammer, 1987 |
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| Oct-29-06 | | 2021: Damiano defense
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nxe5! fxe5 4.Qh5+ Ke7 (4.... g6 5.Qxe5+ wins the h8-rook. 4.Qh5+ Ke7 5.Qxe5+ Kf7 6.Bc4+ d5 7.Bxd5+ Kg6 8.h4! h5 (8.... Bd6 9.h5+ Kh6 10.d4+ g5 11.hxg6+ Kxg6 12.Qh5+ Kf6 [12.... Kg7 13.Qf7# 13.Qg5#) 9.Bxb7!! Bxb7 10.Qf5+ Kh6 11.d4+ g5 12.Bxg5+  |
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| Oct-29-06 | | 2021: Petroff-Sokolow
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nxe5 fxe5 4.Qh5+ g6? 5.Qxe5+ Qe7 6.Qxh8 Nf6 7.d3 d5 8.Bh6 Nbd7 9.Bxf8 Nxf8 10.Nc3 Be6 11.e5 Nh5 12.g4 0-0-0 13.gxh5 Nd7 0-1
Nice queen trap! |
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| Oct-29-06 | | 2021: Krejcik-Munoz
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Nf3 d5 5.d3 dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Be2 Bf5 8.c3 Bd6 9.Be3 Ne7 10.Nbd2 Qg4 11.Ng1 Qh4 12.g3 1-0 Another good queen trap! |
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| Dec-05-06 | | 2021: Here are some short games (less than 10 moves) that have that have Damiano defense:
Presznyak-Fulop
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nxe5 fxe5 4.Qh5+ Ke7 5.Qxe5+ Kf7 6.Bc4+ 1-0Horvath-Kadas
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.d3 Bc5 5.Be3 Bxe3 6.fxe3 Nge7 7.Be2 d5 1/2-1/2 Bridge-Berger
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nc3 Nh6 4.Bc4 Nc6 5.d4 Bb4 6.Nxe5 fxe5 7.Bxh6 gxh6 8.Qh5+ Kf8 9.Qf7# 1-0 Nelson-Matthews
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nxe5 fxe5 4.Qh5+ g6 5.Qxe5+ Be7 6.Qxh8 Kf7 7.Bc4+ Kf8 8.Qxg8# 1-0 Kalesis-Martinis
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.d4 Nc6 4.Bb5 d6 5.d5 Bd7 6.dxc6 bxc6 7.Bc4 1-0 Bermudez-Ferrer
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Bc4 Ne7 4.Nc3 c6 5.d4 b5 6.Bb3 b4 7.dxe5 bxc3 8.exf6 cxb2 9.f7# 1-0 Zuidema-Hills
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.d4 d6 4.Bc4 Bg4 5.dxe5 fxe5 6.Qd5 Bxf3 7.Qf7# 1-0 Han-Fricker
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nxe5 fxe5 4.Qh5+ g6 5.Qxe5+ Ne7 6.Qxh8 d6 7.Qxh7 1-0 Goujon-Salaun
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Bc4 Ne7 4.Nc3 c6 5.d4 exd4 6.Qxd4 f5 7.Ne5 d6 8.Bf7# 1-0 |
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| Dec-23-06 | | 2021: According to NCO, the Hungarian Defense for black is playable.
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Be7 4.d4 d6 5.d5 Nb8 6.Bd3 Nf6 7.c4 0-0 8.Nc3 Nbd7 9.h3 Ne8 10.0-0 g6 11.Bh6 Ng7 white has a slight advantage Trying to go for the Oh My God! trap dosen't work with best play by white.
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nd4 4.Nxd4 exd4 5.0-0 White has a big advantage. |
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| Dec-26-06 | | 2021: Before I told you that after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nd4 is a bad move. here are some other not-really-so-good third moves for black: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 g6 4.d4 exd4 5.Bg5 Be7 6.Bf4 and white has a slight advantage. 3. ... f5 4.d3 white has a slight advantage.
3. ... d6 4.d4 (4.c3 Bg4 unclear position) 4. ... exd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Nc3 Be7 7.0-0 0-0 8.h3 (8.Nf5!? white has a slight advantage) 8. ... Re8 9.Re1 Sermek-Mestrovic Portoroz 1996. (Note: This all taken from NCO.) |
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| Feb-09-07 | | FICSwoodpusher: I played this "boring" game last night. It was not really boring to me, although I was unhappy that with opening and thought I was losing in the middle game due to not seeing far enough. [Round "?"]
[White "me"]
[Black "NN"]
[Result "0-1"]
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. c3 Nf6 4. d3 Be7 5. Bg5 O-O 6. Bxf6 Bxf6 7. d4 Nc6 8. d5 Ne7 9. Be2 c6 10. c4 cxd5 11. cxd5 Bd7 12. O-O Ng6 13. Nc3 Nf4 14. Bb5 Be7 15. Bxd7 Qxd7 16. Ne2 Rac8 17. Nxf4 exf4 18. Qd2 Bf6 19. Rab1 Rfe8 20. Qxf4 Rc2 21. Rfc1 Re2 22. Nd2 Be5 23. Qf5 Qxf5 24. exf5 Rxd2 25. Re1 Rxd5 26. f4 Bd4+ 27. Kf1 Rxe1+ 28. Kxe1 Be3 29. g3 Rd2 30. Rc1 Re2+ 31. Kxe2 Bxc1 32. b3 Kf8 33. Kd3 Ke7 34. Kc4 Kf6 35. Kd5 Ba3 36. Ke4 Bc5 37. g4 h6 38. h4 Ke7 39. g5 h5 40. g6 f6 41. Kd5 Be3 42. Ke4 Bf2 43. Kf3 Bxh4 44. b4 b5 0-1 |
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| Feb-09-07 | | FICSwoodpusher: Since I had already moved d6 I thought it wouldnt not only be a change in plans to play d5 here but also a loss of a tempo. 
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