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| Feb-04-05 | | Bartleby: Here we go with our list-mania, high fidelity style:
1) David Bronstein
2) Harry Nelson Pillsbury
3) Johannes Zukertort
4) David Janowski
5) James Mason |
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| Feb-04-05 | | suenteus po 147: <Bartleby> I love James Mason! He's excellent in Kubrick's "Lolita." |
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| Feb-05-05 | | Bartleby: Yes, by god, if only James Mason hadn't been so fatally distracted to the point of madness by nymphets, he could have been world champion. |
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Feb-07-05
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: My list:
1. Rubinstein
2-4. Keres, Pillsbury, Reshevsky
5. Haven't made up my mind here. |
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| Feb-08-05 | | drukenknight: How Keres and Rubinstein keep making these lists is beyond me. Keres could blunder at any time; any place. And for all of Rubinstein's great combinatorial games, he could just as easily play a listless positional game. Like his famous game v. Spielman, Spielmanns deep attacking combo is really set up by some weak moves by Rubinstein. |
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| Apr-06-05 | | Runemaster: I don't think I'd ever seen a photo of Tartakower before - thanks cg.com! He doesn't look anything like I expected. I thought he would be some sort of strange-looking boho Dadaist type, but instead he looks like Prokofiev's more serious elder brother. |
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| Apr-06-05 | | paladin at large: <An Englishman>You sir.........excuse me, Good evening: You sir, have the best list. Rubinstein was a giant in his prime, when he gave Lasker, Capablanca and Alekhine fits. No. 5 is tough, but I go with Schlechter, who tied Lasker in a match in Lasker's prime. I am embarrassed a bit that this thread got rolling on the Tartakower site. Poor Savielly! |
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| Apr-06-05 | | iron maiden: <drukenknight> Keres's results from the late 1930's to the early 1960's pretty much speak for themselves. But I do agree that Rubinstein is slightly overrated as a non-champion. |
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| Apr-06-05 | | mcgee: If you created a chess/car park fight biathlon to separate the men from the boys in the 'best ever non-WC' debate, Korchnoi would prevail. But Kasparov would surely still be all-time #1 in this extended discipline...(apologies for my low-grade humour) |
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| Apr-06-05 | | WMD: According to cg.com's DB, Keres beat Korchnoi 4-1 in decisive encounters. |
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| Apr-12-05 | | FHBradley: iron maiden: But I do agree that Rubinstein is slightly overrated as a non-champion. Poor man Rubinstein, to be overrated as a non-champion, a doubly miserable fate, not to mention his mental illness, starvation, etc. I wonder just how slight this overrating might be? Serious enough to give the uninitiated a distorted picture of Rubinstein qua chessplayer? Not so serious as to be worth making a fuss about? Are there many slightly or even more seriously overrated non-champions? Could they be listed, and if so, how would Rubinstein figure in this list? Would he be the #1 overrated non-champion? Please note that this is an attempt at irony, but since they say that irony is not the strongest asset of people coming from this part of the world, please ignore it if you think it's excessively weak. |
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| Apr-12-05 | | FHBradley: For what it is worth, here's my list of the five most overrated non-champs. 1. Rubinstein: the champion of non-champions.
2. Staunton: better at Shakespeare than chess.
3. Tarrasch: mediocrity driven by a limitless ambition.
4. Schlechter: the incessant drawing machine, impeccable technique almost to the end.
5. Anderssen: simply a patzer. |
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| Apr-12-05 | | sourcerer: well after looking at your varied list guys i think i should give mine
#1.viktor korchnoi
#2.richard reti
#3.frank james marshall
#4.akiba rubenstein
#5.paul morphy |
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| May-06-05 | | The Bloop: The following is from "Kings, Commoners and Knaves - Further Chess Explorations" by Edward Winter, noted chess writer. On 6 April, 1987 we had a lengthy telephone conversation with Olga Capablanca Clark and subsequently received the following letter: 28 April 1987
Dear Chess Friends,
Among the multitude of games played by my late husband, Jose Raul Capablanca, there is one that has never been published nor even seen by anyone except the three of us: Capablanca, Tartakower and myself. In the years that I had known Capa he had never played in private, he had never practiced, nor even had a chess set at home. Ever so different from the chess masters all over the world! There was, however, a very special occasion. It happened in Paris. I believe the year was 1938. We stayed in the Hotel Regina, Place Jeanne D'Arc, quite near the Louvre Museum. I had one of my frequent bad colds and stayed in bed to recuperate, when Savielly Tartakower, one of our good friends, came over for a visit. He stayed quite a while. Then suddenly he said to Capa: "I have a chess set with me. Why not play a game?" Much to my astonishment, Capa smiled. "Why not? We are in good company." He grabbed some of the hotel stationery, a small table was moved close to my bed and the two masters sat down to play. How long the game lasted I couldn't quite tell, as here and there I slept a little. I remember Capa woke me up by gently touching my shoulder, to give me a few folded sheets of Regina stationery, on which he had written the score of Capa vs. Tartakower. Of course he won. "Here is a present for you, cherie."
Gingerly I took the folded stationery. "But you know I don't understand a thing about chess." Both he and Tartakower laughed good naturedly.
"Take it and hide it well. Some day in years to come it will buy you a beautiful bijou", Capa said. "Ever since I was a child everything I did was written down. And this is the only chess game that is only yours." Anyone wishing to buy the Capablanca jewel, as he referred to it, should write as soon as possible to Mr. Edward Winter…The 30th of September would be the appropriate time-limit, as I have authorized him to receive the bids on my behalf. In view of the exceptional nature of the game and surrounding circumstances, no offer under $US 10,000 will be accepted. With sincerest good wishes to all chess players in all lands. (Signed)
Olga Capablanca Clark
Aftermath: No bids were received by the deadline, and the present whereabouts of the Capablanca-Tartakower game-score are unknown. Olga Capablanca died in the mid 1990s. Wow, hard to believe that no bids were recieved, especially considering that the game-score itself was written in Capa's own hand. |
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| May-08-05 | | woodenbishop: Incredibly interesting story... thanks <The Bloop> for sharing it. |
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| Jun-26-05 | | Knight13: "Some part of a mistake is always correct" --- Savielly Tartakower |
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| Aug-05-05 | | I3illiejoe12: Nobody mentioned Najdorf as one of the greatest players never to be WC ? What the heck ? |
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| Aug-05-05 | | Gypsy: Bronstein, Keres, Tarrasch, Reshewski, Pillsbury, Korchnoy, Maroczy, Rubinstein, Schlechter, Chigorin, Fine, Geller, Najdorf, Bogolubov, Flohr, Nimzowich, Zukertort, Janovski, Duras, Boleslavsky, Stein, Poluaevsky, Portish, Larsen, Huebner, Eliskases, Marshall, Tartakower, Gligoric, Hort Top 30 Non-WCs, from Steinitz-Zukertort till about 1980. I got Keres and Bronstein at 1-2, but put Bronstein ahead of Keres, because Bronstein never lost a match -- a record which includes decisive wins in training matches against Tal and Korchnoy. |
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Aug-06-05
 | | offramp: <"Here is a present for you, cherie." Gingerly I took the folded stationery. "But you know I don't understand a thing about chess."> I have read this story before. It always makes me want to vomit. |
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| Aug-09-05 | | paladin at large: <offramp> I am a Capa fan, but I have to like your reaction. The purported dialogue sounds like a 40s melodrama. (You can't blame the old gal for trying to market Capa.) I wish the game would turn up. |
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| Sep-17-05 | | Petrosian63: Could Tartakower beat Capablanca during 1920's to be World Champion? Or is Capablanca just too strong at the time? |
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| Sep-17-05 | | Mating Net: Tartaower just couldn't get over the hump against Capa, 5 losses and 7 draws. However, he did manage to play one of the alltime great games against Capa: Capablanca vs Tartakower, 1924
From what I have read, it sure sounds like they were pretty good friends and interacted quite a bit when they weren't playing chess. Quite a contrast to Capa's relationship with Alekhine. Tartakower had a bit more luck playing against Alekhine and managed to score a couple of wins. |
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| Sep-17-05 | | paladin at large: I just posted on the Vidmar thread a 1929 relative assessment by Capablanca of the top twelve masters, thereby placing Tartakower somewhere between 7 and 12 ( in the world). Although Tartakower was never able to break through into the very top tier, he deserves tremendous respect. He had a very difficult life and showed a a great mind, character and will power - playing top level chess for a very long time, too. |
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| Oct-22-05 | | fred lennox: Tartakower, for me, is not more of a god, but the most intimate god between chigorin and Bronstein. Looking at my other gods, leaving alekhine aside, he doesn't have the sweeping vigor of spielmann, the dramatic intensity of Nimzowitch, the lyrical beauty of Reti, he was as gifted in tactics as the first and understood the subtleties of hypermodern as well as the last two. His games are not lacking in richness and drama but have a quality hardly suspected from hypermodern play - a verve, wit, an ebbulient sponteniety which i'm afraid i find irrisistable. He was as great as an endgame player as any in his day. I'd like to stress this point. Nimzowitch was the first to say so, i may be the second. My opinion hardly counts i know, the point is to wipe away all bias and take a fresh look yourself. |
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| Nov-07-05 | | fred lennox: <Tartakower, from the beginning of his career moved in the direction of Tschigorin.> Reti A typical Tartakower attack is in this game. Martinolich vs Tartakower, 1907 Weighty, elaborate, violent, a touch bizzar, qualities showing his imagination is somewhat baroque, like Nimzowitch. His style shows a close relationship to the hypermodern simply because he was being true to himself. Compared to Nimzowtch he is more airy, less searching, more "tuneful", less learned.
Yet he has subtlety and depth as his writings clearly shows. |
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