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Jan-24-21
 | | harrylime: If not for Gazza . Karpov would have stayed WC a bit longer. DISCUSS |
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Jan-24-21
 | | MissScarlett: <Hazz>, chess historians, a hundred years hence, will trail through the pages of this site in search of nuggets of enlightenment. Your posts will probably puzzle if not bewilder them. Do you have anything to say in your defence? |
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Jan-24-21
| | harrylime: <<MissScarlett: <Hazz>, chess historians, a hundred years hence, will trail through the pages of this site in search of nuggets of enlightenment. Your posts will probably puzzle if not bewilder them. Do you have anything to say in your defence?>> If they're lookin when I'm gone you mean <Scazz> ?? Well just two words gotta say
FOOOOOK YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZE |
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| Sep-23-21 | | edbermac: Looks like a film of the match will be out soon. Curious as to whose point of view it will represent. https://youtu.be/1FMVlRrRPLI |
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Sep-23-21
 | | Joshka: <edbermac> Thanks for posting!! From the trailer it looks very suspenseful!! This match continued the drama left over from 1972 although Korchnoi was not an American he was seen as the official rebel against the Commie Golden Boy Karpov!! Many shenanigans for plenty of intrigue indeed. I recall how I happened to stumble into a chess book store right around I believe Game 28 or 29 and was flabbergasted at the amount of chess reading material there was. They even had the GAME scores right on a WALL BOARD for folks to follow. The American Book Store had mostly Korchnoi fans cheering on against the Commie poster child. Hope they have English subtitles. thanks again for posting! PS Would like to hear GM Ray Keene's take:-) |
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| Sep-24-21 | | Bartleby: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P63...
The chess documentary "Closing Gambit (2018)", mentioned on this page, is available for free to watch on Tubi, covering this match, the ongoing Karpov -- Korchnoi rivalry, and also Korchnoi's late-career ascendance and to a lessor degree the Soviet stranglehold on chess through the Brezhnev -- Gorbachev period. Probably the strongest elderly contender in interzonals and candidate tournaments since Smyslov. His last one was in 1991 at the age of 60. Smyslov's performance at the candidates final of 1984 at the age of 63 against Garry Kasparov has to be the most impressive though. |
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| Sep-24-21 | | Chesgambit: Karpov can easily lose to Fischer look at the his score aganist Korchnoi |
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| Sep-24-21 | | Bartleby: Karpov would have had his chances in 1975, a view held by Kasparov. Karpov edged out Polugaevsky, Spassky, and Korchnoi in the candidates so I don't think it would have been the steamroll many Americans and Westerners fantasize happening had the match with Fischer proceeded. I agree with Spassky that Fischer would have narrowly beat Karpov in '75 but would lose to him in '78. The current world champion, Magnus Carlsen reminds me a lot of a combination of Reuben Fine and Karpov, polished to the theoretical demands of the 21st Century. |
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Sep-24-21
| | Joshka: <Chesgambit> <look at his score verse Korchnoi> I've always held this same view. Korchnoi gave Karpov everything he could handle and he was 20 years his senior! I have no doubt Bobby would have prevailed in '75 and '78 for that matter. I believe Karpov would have prevailed in a very close match in 1981, though. Guess we'll all have to wait for the "Match Made in Heaven";-) The new movie on the '78 Match looks extraordinary!! |
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Sep-24-21
 | | keypusher: < Chesgambit: Karpov can easily lose to Fischer look at the his score aganist Korchnoi> It’s better than Fischer’s. |
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Sep-24-21
 | | HeMateMe: Well, duh. Fischer played korchnoi when the Russian was in his prime. Karpov got him when VK was over the hill. Certainly the korchnoi that karpov defeated in 1981 was not the same guy that Fischer played in 1961. |
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Sep-24-21
 | | 0ZeR0: <HMM>
<Karpov got him when VK was over the hill.>He didn’t seem particularly over the hill when he won the candidates tournament in 1977 defeating the likes of Petrosian, Polugaevsky, and Spassky in matches consecutively. And he certainly didn’t seem over the hill in the world championship match with Karpov seeing as he lost by the narrowest of margins. Also keep in mind that to become the challenger again for the 1981 match he had to win the candidates a second time in which he defeated the likes of Petrosian, Polugaevsky, and Huebner (although this one was won by forfeit, he was leading) in matches consecutively. And even after this he would still be a world championship candidate four more times (1983, 1985, 1988, and 1991). |
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| Sep-24-21 | | unferth: yeah, I think the consensus is that Korchnoi's prime began in the mid-70s. more like they played before Fischer reached his prime. |
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Sep-24-21
| | keypusher: Korchnoi had a strange career. When he first won the Soviet championship (1960) he was already 29. You wouldn't expect someone who took that long to win it once would win it three more times in the 60s, but that's what he did. He had quite a few terrific performances in the 60s, but he would always falter in the world championship events. In 1968 he finally got to the Candidates' finals, but Spassky beat him decisively. I've always thought his amazing results in the 1970s owed something to his own generation (but not him!) starting to fade and the generation after being not quite as strong, except for Karpov (and Fischer quitting, of course). Anyway, it seems to me if you're going to say Fischer would have beaten Karpov based on Karpov's troubles with Korchnoi, you have to at least nod in the direction of the fact that Fischer had a 50% score against Korchnoi. Now, Korchnoi himself thought Fischer would have beaten him in a match in the 70s, but didn't predict a blowout. Fischer vs Korchnoi, 1970 (kibitz #60) These sorts of arguments seem to have strange rules, anyway, depending on who is doing the arguing. Fischer's results against Korchnoi don't count, because Fischer was too young. Well, OK. But Karpov also had a better record against Spassky than Fischer did. But that doesn't count either, because Spassky had left his mojo in Reykjavik or whatever. Karpov can't win! I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to -- or at least keep an open mind re -- the guy who kept playing. |
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Sep-24-21
| | HeMateMe: Fischer had plenty of trouble in his match with Reshevsky, an older man with a worse rating and tournament record. People always assume that the Fischer of 1975 would have been the Fischer of 1972. We'll never know. Like him or not, Karpov was remarkably consistent, which argues well for his continued improvement towards 1975. Bobby Fischer took whole years off to lick his psychic wounds. |
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| Sep-25-21 | | fisayo123: It would have most likely been 65:30 in favour of Karpov or even 70:30 Karpov just had too many advantages going into the match in 1975 against Fischer, some of them Fischer's own doing (i.e not playing chess for 3 years leading up to the match). Never mind that Karpov would have been armed to the gills with the best opening prep in the history of World Championship matches and Fischer's tactic of switching black openings he deployed against Spassky would have been anticipated and rebuffed. Fischer, in addition to a 3 year layoff would have had to work on the openings by himself except it would not have been enough, partly due to the extreme high class of his opponent. Oh, and Karpov was also the best player in history playing the black side of the Caro-Kann; an opening Fischer famously had trouble playing against in his career. Fischer could maybe had turned to 1. d4 and 1. c4 but again, Karpov was the best ever at the black side of the Queen's Indian and Fischer's inexperience with anything but 1. e4 would have been a big issue against Karpov. Fischer's best chances could ironically had come with the black pieces and battles in the Najdorf, depending on how willing Fischer would have been to engage in the mainlines. I just don't see any clear advantages Fischer could have had in 1975. I've envisioned a scenario in which he would have been down 3-0 or 4-0 against Karpov due to rust and abruptly quit. Karpov was Spassky. He was a much stronger player and would have been by far the strongest player Fischer would have had to contend against in his career. Karpov had waltzed through the Candidates and was on a streak of winning several very strong international supertournaments. He also had an 8 year youth advantage over Fischer and wasn't a declining player like Taimanov, Petrosian....even Spaskky for that matter were. The problem with Fischer fans is they are very much on the delusional end of the spectrum when it comes to discussing objectively. |
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| Sep-25-21 | | fisayo123: The trailer for the movie looks very nice by the way. Can't wait to watch it :) |
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| Sep-25-21 | | savagerules: The film looks to be pretty good. It's called World Champion. The actor playing Karpov has the greasy long hair the way Karpov had it back then. It shows Karpov having a nose bleed and freaking out on people probably due to intense pressure near the end of the 1978 championship match. I wonder how accurate it is. |
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Sep-25-21
| | HeMateMe: as long as we're going to pile on, Karpov had bad teeth, too. I'm ready to see a well made chess movie. I don't really want to see Toby Maguire kicking at the beach sand, wailing about his place in life. I hope the Russians aren't all Boris Badunov caricatures. A little context is good. The reason an unlimited match length was possible is because Ferdinand Marcos was a dictator who had opposition people jailed or shot. If Marcos wanted to put up $1M in match purse while people were eating out of garbage cans in the streets of Manila, then that was his prerogative. The Marcos Philippines, the only country on earth where the Beatles were booed (other than the American deep south). |
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| Sep-25-21 | | RookFile: I love how people want to rewrite history, whether it be Kasparov or some of the folks here. I'm not aware of any major chess player in the world, not one, who in 1975 thought that Karpov would beat Fischer in a match. Fischer had taken breaks before, and had in fact emerged from them stronger than ever. Karpov did not have Fischer's level of experience in match play at the highest level, did not have Fischer's stamina, and probably would have spent his time preparing for openings that Fischer wouldn't play, just like Spassky did. To give just one example, nobody would have predicted that Fischer would play the Pirc against Spassky, but he most certainly did. Somebody mentioned the Reshevsky match, which only proves the point - Fischer didn't deviate his openings for that match. By the time he played Spassky in 1972 he had learned to deviate and be unpredictable. When you think about it, that's one of the reasons why Fischer gave up chess and invented chess960 - with computers in full swing, the room for opening innovation in the 1990's wasn't the same as in the 1970's. Karpov said he had spent oodles of time preparing for Fischer's Alekhine defense. Good for him. Now try to guess Karpov's level of depression when Fischer played somthing else. Karpov had his weaknesses too. As Tony Miles showed, beating Karpov with 1....a6, Karpov could be beaten when you got him away from his preprogrammed opening book. There wouldn't be anybody better in the world at playing the unexpected opening than Fischer. |
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| Sep-25-21 | | nok: <As Tony Miles showed, beating Karpov with 1....a6, Karpov could be beaten...> Yeah, hence his magnificent score against him. |
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Sep-25-21
| | HeMateMe: Reshevsky played Fischer to a draw in their match. BF walked away from the match, because it wasnt going well for him, a familiar pattern. He would have quit in Iceland too, had Fischer not taken an early lead. Fischer was gone for 3 years, had not done that before. Id give fischer a slight edge in 1975 <if> he had played continuously for 3 years, after 1972. If BF plays the match after a 3 year layoff? I think karpov would have won, the same karpov who was world champion for ten years. |
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Sep-25-21
| | Joshka: <savagerules> <wonder how accurate> Well we have GM <ray keene> here at <chessgames.com> and he was right in the thick of things!! Head of Korchnoi's delegation I believe. Just watched "Closing Gambit" it's very good BTW I'll advise anyone who is interested in the history and lore of great Championship chess to watch it. <ray keene> is in many of the scenes. I'll take his authority on the match. |
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Sep-25-21
| | 0ZeR0: re: the 1975 match
For what it’s worth I have Fischer as a slight favorite in 1975 though I believe it’s close to 50:50. And I say that with Karpov probably being my favorite player of all-time. Either way it’s a great shame the match never took place as it deprived the world of some potentially excellent chess. |
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Sep-26-21
| | HeMateMe: I hope Jim Carrey plays Dr. Zhukov, the paranormal mentalist in the movie. Zhukov sat in the first row and stared at Korchnoi, trying to hypnotize him, in 1978. You want an actor who can INHABIT the role. Maybe Jim Carrey can do even better? |
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