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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 6 OF 20 ·
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| May-01-07 | | wolfmaster: <SwitchingQuylthulg>,<Plato> thanks for the opinions. |
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| May-01-07 | | Plato: <Fine reached a level equal to any that Reshevsky reached> It's possible but not clear-cut. I personally think that Reshevsky at his peak (early 1950s) reached a higher level than Fine at his peak (late 1930s). |
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May-01-07
 | | plang: Yes, my wording was a bit strong. These are clearly opinions. |
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| May-19-07 | | suenteus po 147: A fine collection to celebrate a Fine player: Game Collection: Zandvoort 1936 |
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Jun-11-07
 | | Joshka: In a book I just purchased written by Fine, he talks about how a 3-fold repetition for a draw, is NOT recognized in the USSR, of course now the OLD USSR....is this true???..never have heard about this?..thanks in advance! |
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| Jul-15-07 | | WilhelmThe2nd: Reuben Fine was interviewed in 'Blitz Chess' magazine of July-September, 1992 (Vol.4, Issue 2). Here are a few of the more interesting Q&A's: <BC: Who did you look up to most when you were growing up?RF: Emmanuel [sic] Lasker- I even wrote a book about him and his games. BC: To your knowledge, when was the first international Blitz event with clocks? RF: Capa won the first one, in 1931.
BC: How did Capa and Alekhine compare at Blitz?
RF: Capa was 50-100 points better at Blitz, and Alekhine was 50-100 points worse! BC: Why didn't you play in the 1948 World Championship? RF: I was out of practice, and I was also too short of funds to buy a ticket.> |
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| Jul-15-07 | | John Thornton: Alekhine had longer arms! |
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| Oct-11-07 | | ILoveCrazyhouse: what a sexy man beast. |
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| Oct-11-07 | | Morten: Fine had his career (at chess, that is) cut short by the war. I consider Fine to be one of the most underrated players in history and I think it is an error that he is excluded from the Kasparov books (My great predecessors blah blah). There is of course a good deal of speculation in this, but in my view from 1935 to 1940 Fine would have had at least a 50-50 chance in a match against any player in the world. |
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Oct-11-07
 | | tamar: <Morten> Fine is not excluded from the Kasparov books. He is in Volume 1V "Fischer" pp 30-49 under the heading "The Fine Enigma" It begins "When talking about Reshevsky, it is of course impossible not to mention his eternal opponent, one of the most underestimated players in the history of the game-the outstanding grandmaster Rueben Fine, ...the only player who has an overall positive score in his games with world champions!" |
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| Oct-11-07 | | jackpawn: I've done some research on Fine and I'm sure he would have won a match against Alekhine in the late 1930's. I also think Reshevsky and Botvinnik would have won too during that time frame. On the other hand, I think Keres would have lost against Alekhine. He didn't have a good score against him and seemed overawed by him. He lost games against Alekhine even in the 1940's when Alekhine was definitely on his way down. Of course all this is simply my opinion! |
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| Oct-11-07 | | Petrosianic: <I've done some research on Fine and I'm sure he would have won a match against Alekhine in the late 1930's.> Since you don't tell us what your research yielded, it's impossible to evaluate the claim. Reshevsky answered "Certainly not", when asked if Fine could have beaten Alekhine then, saying that Fine was a fine player but not in Alekhine's league. <I also think Reshevsky and Botvinnik would have won too during that time frame.> Reshevsky thinks Botvinnik and Keres would have lost then, but that he himself might possibly have had a chance. Of course we're talking about pre-war. Post-war Botvinnik, Fine, Reshevsky, Keres and possibly others would probably have beaten Alekhine handily. |
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| Oct-11-07 | | Shams: For whatever reason Reshevsky totally dominated Fine. Whether his style matched up perfectly against him or whether for some reason Fine just played subpar chess against him, who knows. At any rate, Reshevsky probably thought less of Fine than he maybe should have. Still, I can't even imagine what sort of research would lead one to conclude that Fine would surely beat Alekhine in the late '30s. |
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| Oct-11-07 | | Morten: Tamar,
Thank you for that reference. I don't have that volume and had only looked in the ones with Capablanca/Alekhine and Botvinnik/Smyslov. Not that it makes any difference, but I am happy to see that evaluation. I guess Fine is the type of player for whom you'll always wonder what might have been. |
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Oct-11-07
| | tamar: <Morten> I think Kasparov originally was going to leave out the Western players, but was prevailed upon by Timman, and other reviewers who noted the absence,to correct the omission. As such, it is hard to know Kasparov's true opinion of these players, but his initial rejection of them in the earlier books-choosing to highlight Geller, Polugaevsky and Keres-makes me think he sees them as lower grade. As a makeshift solution, he lumped them all together in the start of the Fischer volume, highlighting Reshevsky, Najdorf, and Larsen, but giving Fine the biggest mini-section. |
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| Oct-12-07 | | Morten: Tamar, Good insight. Although Fine at the time wrote "the book" on both openings and endings, when annotating games (his own) he comes across as perhaps less "scientific" than the Soviet monsters that formed Kasparov. Perhaps a myth was formed in the minds of the young Soviet players - a myth which also encompassed Fischer (who was never a favourite player of mine). |
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| Oct-12-07 | | pazzed paun: In the early 1930's Fine toured Russia and played in a Moscow tournament. He wrote flatteringly of the young Soviet players but he was never thought of as a rival to Botvinnik. Reshevsky was considerd a top rival to Botvinnik and was probably spoken about disparginly by the Soviet Machine. |
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| Oct-13-07 | | jackpawn: I guess I have to response, even though I stated in my post that my feeling was just an opinion. It was asked the source of my 'research'. Okay, fair enough. I have always had an interest in the careers of Fine and Reshevsky, particularly the time period before the war, the last period before the Soviets basically took over chess for a generation. I studied Fine's, Reshevsky's, and Botvinnik's games and books. By the late 1930's they all were increasing in strength. Alekhine was obviously declining, at least somewhat. Fine stated in his book that he felt he could have won a match against Alekhine, and felt Botvinnik and Reshevsky could have too. How was he justified in saying this? Well, he won the last three games he played against Alekhine! My final point is to look at the Sonas Chessmetrics ratings. In the absence of ELO ratings back then it's the most objective measure we have. In the period of 1939-41 (a time when any possible match would have taken place) Fine and Botvinnik are always rated number one or two in the world. Generally Botvinnik at the top spot, but several months it was Fine. So that's my 'research'. You may disagree with my opinion, okay fine. But I think anyone can understand how I came to my opinion. One final point, my comment was that I thought Fine would beat Alekhine. My comment wasn't to say I thought Fine was the best player in the world. For whatever reason, as <Shams> pointed out, Fine simply couldn't play against Reshevsky. I think Reshevsky was simply a greater fighter. I also question if Fine could have won against Botvinnik. |
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| Oct-13-07 | | Shams: interesting, <jackpawn>, thanks for sharing. do you have a game collection for Fine? |
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| Oct-20-07 | | Fatos: He looks like Elvis Presley :P |
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| Oct-20-07 | | Petrosianic: In the 1930's, maybe. In the 1980's he looked like Isaac Asimov. |
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| Oct-23-07 | | savagerules: Wonder if he was related to Larry Fine of the Three Stooges fame. |
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| Nov-20-07 | | CapAnson: <savagerules> Both were Jewish, though Larry Fine's real name was Fineberg, I don't think that's the case with Reuben. Also Reuben was born in New York and was a Russian Jew. Larry was born in Philiadelphia and I don't *think* was Russian. In short if they were related, it was probably distantly. |
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| Jan-03-08 | | talisman: Mmmmm...Fine had a + score against Lasker, Capablanca, Alekhine, and Botvinnik....and he drew against Euwe.
.....Not Bad!. |
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Jan-03-08
 | | ketchuplover: I have an even score against all world champions except for Anand(-1) |
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