< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·
|Mar-17-11|| ||ewan14: 1963 U.S.S.R. championship / zonal tourament
Kholmov comes first equal with Spassky and Stein , so why was he not in the 1964 interzonal ?
Korchnoi alleges it was due to Smyslov
that there was a zonal tournament of seven in addition to the USSR Championship
Kholmox came fourth missing out on the Interzonal
|Mar-17-11|| ||TheFocus: In addition to being a great player, Kholmov was an excellent annotator.|
|Mar-17-11|| ||fab4: I came across him re his very interesting tussles with the great RJF. Did'nt realise he'd passed away. So sad to see that. |
<Ewan14> Soviet chess ooozed corruption and fixing. That's just the way it was.. face fitted or not.
|Apr-15-11|| ||Benzol: A small homage to Kholmov - Game Collection: Ratmir Kholmov Additional Games|
|May-13-11|| ||perfidious: <Resignation Trap: Yes, Kholmov was once suspended for a year by the Soviet Chess Federation for excessive drinking.>|
Long ago, I remember reading that Kholmov had thrice been suspended by the Soviet chess authorities, but never particulars as to why.
Anyone else know more about this?
|May-13-11|| ||DarthStapler: If they suspended people for drinking then what happened to Tal?|
|May-13-11|| ||perfidious: <Darth> With the possible exception of Tal's being dropped by the Soviet federation for their side in Tel Aviv 1964, I suspect they generally didn't mess with players whom they believed were title contenders. Kholmov wasn't quite in that class, formidable a player as he was.|
Tal, despite his drinking and the perceived taint of his Jewish origins, behaved well from the federation's point of view. They were willing, as with Botvinnik, Korchnoi and Kasparov, to overlook ethnic considerations, as keeping a firm grasp on the world crown was paramount.
|May-13-11|| ||WhiteRook48: happy birthday|
|May-23-11|| ||Caissanist: Regarding Kholmov being suspended by the Soviet Chess Federation for a year, I believe that is a reference to this incident, which Kholmov tells his side of in Sosonko's <Smart Chip from St. Petersburg>:|
<I underestimated myself in those days, believing that all the other chess players were potentially stronger. So it turned out that Bronstein played a World Championship match in '51 and I was disqualified in the same year. For what? We were sitting around at a tournament, that's Tarasov, Nezhmetdinov and me, drinking, and two chicks came up to us. Well, Rashid was kid of in the way, eh was about fifteen years older than Tarasov and me. You turn off the tap recorder now, turn it off, can you imagine if my wife reads this...
Anyway, basically, Rashid was flushed, he was drunk, of course, he went out to the balcony and started throwing crockery off it--vases and plates. When Nezhmetdiniov drank he had all kinds of psychoses, he'd lie down under a tram or some other dumb thing. On this occasion nothing would have happened, other than the noise of the plates, but Kotov had to stick his nose into it. He started asking questions and whatever. There was an uproar, and the police came. To cut a long story short, they summoned all three of us to Moscow, to see Rodionov, who was chairman of the Sports Committee. Nezhmetdinov grovelled before him, and they decided to pardon him as he was a party member, but Tarasov and I were disqualified for a year. They also cancelled my stipend, which I received as a member of the national team.>
|May-23-11|| ||Caissanist: In the same book Kholmov also says that his reputation as a defender was primarily due to a lack of opening knowledge: <Everyone says I'm a defender, a congenital defender. You'll become a defender if you don't know any theory and your regularly get bad positions after the opening. You'll potter about--as Black, almost always--in your own trenches.>|
|May-23-11|| ||Everyone: Kholmov is really a defender, a congenital defender.|
|May-23-11|| ||Benzol: <DarthStapler> Tarasov was also suspended with Kholmov see my post at Vitaly Georgievich Tarasov|
|Jun-22-12|| ||Call Me TC: <In the same book Kholmov also says that...> he played a four game training match against Bronstein prior to his 1951 WC match with Botvinnik and that he scored +1 =3 but the moves of these games are lost. The <cg.com> DB has Kholmov with a positive score (+4 -2) against Bronstein.|
|Jun-22-12|| ||Petrosianic: Chicks? Do Russians say "chicks"? To describe girls, I mean. I suppose they would to describe those things that come out of eggs in the barnyard. I had no idea that Ratmir was such a hip dude.|
|Jun-22-12|| ||Petrosianic: From this story, it doesn't sound like he was suspended for drinking. It sounds like he was suspended for being involved in a disturbance in which the police were summoned.|
But in true Soviet fashion, they pardoned the guy who causd the disturbance and banned the two bystanders. It sounds like alcohol was only indirectly involved.
Part of it probably depends on where this tournament was played. If they got into enough trouble in a Western country that the police had to be called in, you'd expect the authorities to look badly on that. Especially if, when the police got there, Kholmov and Tarasov were involved with two hookers (he didn't quite say that explicitly, but I'm reading between the lines, with that bit about "what if my wife reads this").
So, it sounds like he was probably suspended for being caught by the police with a hooker in a western country. Not for drinking too much.
|Jun-22-12|| ||Petrosianic: Maybe I should take back what I said about "true Soviet fashion". If Nezhmetdinov was only responsible for the fact that the police were summoned, but Kholmov and Tarasov were responsible for what the police found when they got there, then it might have been quite reasonable to come down harder on them than on Nezhmetdinov.|
|Oct-22-13|| ||Wyatt Gwyon: This dude seems like he was an interesting character.|
|Nov-30-13|| ||Everett: <Bronstein vs Kholmov, 1957>|
Regarding that long think vs Tal in 1957...
|May-13-14|| ||ketchuplover: I was not here|
|May-13-14|| ||Marmot PFL: Peak ranking #8 in the world, beat Fischer, Keres and Bronstein, peak rating 2555. And people say there is no such thing as rating inflation.|
|Jun-08-14|| ||perfidious: Ah, so that explains one of the bumps on the road encountered by (K)holmov during his career.|
|Feb-18-16|| ||TheFocus: Rest in peace, GM Ratmir Kholmov.|
|Feb-18-16|| ||morfishine: <MarmotPFL> The term "rating inflation" is misleading since the term is associated to monetary inflation, which is caused by an artificial increase in the money supply brought on by printing fake, or fiat money. Ratings can go up and not necessarily be "inflated" and a true strength, relative, is preserved|
I could care less about numbers
I like results
Good day sir
|Feb-18-16|| ||greed and death: Elo isn't meant to be a measure of absolute strength, but a measure of strength relative to other players.|
Therefore, a 100-point Elo gap between two players in 1970 shows a strength difference equivalent to a 100-point gap between two players today.
The actual numerical value of the Elo rating means nothing unless compared with another's Elo over the same time period, making comparisons between two players from different eras based on Elo meaningless.
|Feb-18-16|| ||Shams: <Therefore, a 100-point Elo gap between two players in 1970 shows a strength difference equivalent to a 100-point gap between two players today.>|
I don't think this follows at all.
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