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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
| Sep-18-05 |
| azaris: <Yesterday I won my last game with 1.g4!> I hope that's a promise. |
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| Sep-19-05 |
| nikolaas: <tpstar> It was a rapid tournament and we didn't waste time writing down the moves.
I only recall one stupiod game:
[Event "Mortsel rapid"]
[Site "Mortsel"]
[Date "17.09.2005"]
[EventDate "17.9.2005"]
[Round "7"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Verhulst, Nikolaas D"]
[Black "Satti, Abdelkader"]
[WhiteElo "-"]
[BlackElo "1465"](I think)
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 Nf6 6.Bg5 e6 7.f4 g6? 8.Ndb5 h6?9.Bxf6 Qxf6 10.Nc7+ Ke7? 11.Nxa8? (I only thought at this move while thinking about Nc7 so I missed Nd5+) Qxf4 12.Nc7 a6? 13.N7d5 1-0 all information here: http://users.pandora.be/info/skog/l...
and hey! I finished first of those without club!
<azaris> That wasn't a promise at all! How can I refuse to play an opening in which I have a 100% record? |
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| Sep-19-05 |
| Bartleby: In his seminal cyclopedia, Chess Openings: Theory and Practice, Isaac A. Horowitz suggested the Grob (referred as "The Spike" or "The Kolibri" opening at the time) belongs more to the realm of chess psychology than chess strategy. By playing such a self-inflicted K-side gash on the incipient move of the game the white player declares: "Look at what low esteem I hold you in. I can mock you. I can toy with you. I can play the most preposterous opening, and you are impotent to exact a reply." I tend to agree with Horowitz. I play the grob only against signifigantly weaker opponents. The scenario is usually OTB at the local coffeeshop where chess players mingle, and my opponent refuses to accept odds; i.e. those of a pawn-and-move, pawn-and-2-move, knight, etc. So to keep myself from being bored to death I'll play the Grob or some such other nonsense. That fact that players like Michael Basman net a few scalps with it is more an endorsement of Basman than the Grob. As an IM he's sure to recuse himself from the odd opening disaster, via his skill as a tactician, especially vs. weaker opposition. The same applies to, say, an A player busting 1) g4 out vs. a D player. The Grob is "Garbage Chess," though there are a few 1st opening moves which are worse. I think 1) f3 has nothing remote to justify itself. (Unless I'm going to play the Caveman Opening against one of those said stubborn beginners). |
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Sep-19-05
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| who: About the merits of g4 vs f3 see Keene's notes to the first move in M Basman vs Keene, 1981. Basman has beaten stronger opposition with 1.g4 see M Basman vs Nunn, 1978. |
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| Sep-19-05 |
| JohnnyRhetoric: Although the Grob is quite suspect to say the least, it's counterpart known as the Orangutan 1. b4!? is anything but junk. I will be the first to admit that there are much better options, but b4 is certainly playable. If players can play the Larsen's 1. b3?! (Rather than 1. Nf3 d5 2. b3) there is absolutely no reason why the Orangutan's more aggressive pawn push cannot be played. |
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| Sep-19-05 |
| hintza: Hang on, you're saying 1.b3 is ?! and you give !? for 1.b4? Huh?! |
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| Sep-19-05 |
| Bartleby: The Sokolsky/Orangutang is an offbeat opening which is nonetheless a lot more sound than the hideous Grob. If Black plays timidly white can very well transpose into an English/Reti type position with a decisive queen-side expansion already underway. And posting a black night on c6 is somewhat out of the question because of the ...b5 push. Having said that 1) b4 still doesn't bother me as much as standard openings. 1) b3, Larsen's Opening, is hardly dubious. It's a hypermodern opening in the purest sense of the word and the usual strategies apply (it has transpositional flavor as well). The worst that can be said about 1) b3 is that it's not as ambitious for opening advantage as 1) e4/d4 are. I play the Nimzo-Larsen on occassion when I'm not in the mood for a tactical slugfest (e4) or a positional slugfest (d4). If one would call 1) b3 dubious then in my opinion we have to call 1) g6 and the King's Indian Defence dubious as well. |
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Sep-19-05
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| tpstar: <nikolaas> Where are those happy days (1. e4), they seem so hard to find (1 ... c5)/I try to reach for you (2. Nf3), but you have closed your mind (2 ... d6)/Whatever happened to our love (3. d4), I wish I understood (3 ... cd)/It used to be so nice (4. Nxd4), it used to be so good (4 ... Nc6)/You seem so far away (5. Nc3), though you are standing near (5 ... Nf6)/you made me feel alive (6. Bg5), but something died I fear (6 ... e6)/I really tried to make it out (7. f4) [last book move], I wish I understood (7 ... g6)/What happened to our love (8. Ndb5), it used to be so good [8. e5!? Be7 9. exf6 Bf8  ]/So when you're near me (8 ... h6?), darling can't you hear me [8 ... Be7 9. Bxf6 Bxf6 10. Nxd6+ Kf8 ], SOS (9. Bxf6 Qxf6)/The love you gave me (10. Nc7+), nothing else can save me (10 ... Ke7), SOS (11. Nxa8)/When you're gone [11. N7d5+ exd5 12. Nxd5+ Kd7 13. Nxf6+ Kc7 14. Ne8+ Kb8 15. Nxd6 ], how can I even try to go on (11 ... Qxf4)/When you're gone (12. Nc7), though I try (12 ... a6) how can I carry on (13. N7d5+! 1-0) - ABBA + Fritz 7, "SOS" |
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| Sep-20-05 |
| PaulLovric: <Bartleby> love your<Favorite quote from selected chess personalities>, but what about: "e4 best by test", by bobby ? |
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| Sep-20-05 |
| JohnnyRhetoric: Hintza, I use the 1. b3?! for one reason. Obviously, I am not trying to categorize b3 as HORRIBLE, but I give it ?! for the reason that white could easily play, 1. Nf3 prior to b3 in order to insure a decent game. After 1. b3?! ..e5! black has squashed white's opening advantage. However, I am NOT implying it by any means refutes b3. Also, I am not implying that because e5 squashes white's opening advantage, it also does NOT mean black is winning. Therefore, I argue, IF white refuses to play 1. Nf3 prior to the b-pawn push, why not play with some vigor and play 1. b4!? |
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| Sep-20-05 |
| Bartleby: <PaulLovric> Thanks for noticing, however I'm not a Bobby Fischer fan and don't consider him quotable. Nearly everything he's said since the 1950s (outside of techichal analysis) is embarrassing to listen to. The opinions of a hick and the mannerisms of a vulgarian wrapped up in a 180 IQ brain. Proof that aptitude at chess promises no other graces in life, unfortunately. I think Bobby succeeded so well in his career because he was actually a buggy android version of Fritz co-created by Harlan Ellison, Isaac Asminov, and Mikhail Botvinnik. This accounts for his perfect, technically brilliant style of play but maladaptive social skills. Unfortunately, in those days, there was no way to "patch" Bobby Fischer 1.0 in 1975. My favorite American chess legend is Harry Nelson Pillsbury, who was a superstar in his own right but is somewhat forgotten/overshadowed since his accomplishments happened a century ago. Pity he couldn't be reborn today. |
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Sep-20-05
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| keypusher: <I think Bobby succeeded so well in his career because he was actually a buggy android version of Fritz co-created by Harlan Ellison, Isaac Asminov, and Mikhail Botvinnik. This accounts for his perfect, technically brilliant style of play but maladaptive social skills. Unfortunately, in those days, there was no way to "patch" Bobby Fischer 1.0 in 1975.> This makes as much sense as anything I've heard about Fischer. Like Dr. Frankenstein, Botvinnik must have been horrified by his creation. |
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Sep-20-05
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| Monoceros: Harlan Ellison, eh? Well, that accounts for the "mannerisms of a vulgarian" aspect of Fischer. I like this idea. Someone should write it into a story. :) |
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| Sep-20-05 |
| Greginctw: I dont get it. How can a move be bad at proffessional level and good at amateur level? Its still bad at amateur level. Its not like the grob is a particularly sharp opening that gives you chances but that a grandmaster wouldnt play (such as the blackmar diemer, or icelandic gambit). It simply weakens your kingside and does little towards development and controlling the center. There are a couple of stupid traps that a 1300 would see in a standard game (they may miss them in blitz but there obvious in long time controls). Overall Im not convinced by those who claim that the opening totally doesnt matter below the master level. Im not a good enough player to say why exactly but Im sure it matters from my own experience. |
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Sep-20-05
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| Eric Schiller: <graginctw> Because amatuer players usually have deficient defensive skills, an attack that is unsound at the professional level has a better chance of success in amateur games. That's why amateurs tend to prefer very sharp openings, it is easy to trip up the opponent.
I certainly don't think this is the case with the Grob, but an opening such as the Boden-Kiesertisky Gambit brings far more success in amateur games than among the pros, and fits the criteria as an opening that is dubious at professional levels but acceptable, and even recommendable, for use in amateur play. |
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| Sep-20-05 |
| PaulLovric: <<graginctw> Because amatuer players usually have deficient defensive skills, an attack that is unsound at the professional level has a better chance of success in amateur games. That's why amateurs tend to prefer very sharp openings, it is easy to trip up the opponent. I certainly don't think this is the case with the Grob, but an opening such as the Boden-Kiesertisky Gambit brings far more success in amateur games than among the pros, and fits the criteria as an opening that is dubious at professional levels but acceptable, and even recommendable, for use in amateur play.> Exactly |
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Sep-20-05
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| WannaBe: Oh heavens <PaulLoveric>, use elipses... |
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Sep-21-05
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| Eric Schiller: <keypusher> I interviewed Ellison decades ago, and he ripped the mic right out of my machine after making a disparaging remark about Chicago. He told me he was afraid Mayor Daley (the Elder) would send his goons after him. I did manage to air the tape anyway, on WHPK in Chicago. He's a tremendous writer, one of the best, and the interview was great, until he literally broke it off.
If Ellison ever wrote a novel with a focus on a chess player, our reputations would be at risk for some time! |
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| Sep-21-05 |
| hintza: <JohnnyRhetoric> So 1.b4 is stronger than 1.b3 now? Never for me. |
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| Oct-15-05 |
| misguidedaggression: <PaulLovric: <<graginctw> Because amatuer players usually have deficient defensive skills, an attack that is unsound at the professional level has a better chance of success in amateur games. That's why amateurs tend to prefer very sharp openings, it is easy to trip up the opponent. I certainly don't think this is the case with the Grob, but an opening such as the Boden-Kiesertisky Gambit brings far more success in amateur games than among the pros, and fits the criteria as an opening that is dubious at professional levels but acceptable, and even recommendable, for use in amateur play.> Exactly><WannaBe: Oh heavens <PaulLoveric>, use elipses...> ROFL! Sorry, couldn't resist. |
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| Oct-17-05 |
| PaulLovric: i don't get it? |
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| Jan-12-06 |
| HoopDreams: The grob is fun to play in blitz games, if you play 1.g4 than you will most likeley know a lot more about it than your opponent, and your opponent wont have a lot of time to think out how to get an advantage off of it. |
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| May-14-06 |
| BIDMONFA: Henri Grob
GROB, Henry
http://www.bidmonfa.com/grob_henry....
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| May-14-06 |
| NohGrobbing: First, to explain my name "NohGrobbing"... I play on a site where one talented "A" player uses this opening to relax and have a bit of fun with the clueless patzers. The very name "Grob" indicates that it will be a silly game. Little known trivia: the Grob played as black is called the "Borg". Actually, I must confess, I sometimes play Henri's favorite opening, badly, exactly like it's intended. I also play the Orangutan, just as badly. Of the two, I prefer the Grob, because it makes for a far better excuse and nobody expects you to win...(ellipsing awayyyy) |
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May-08-08
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| parmetd: its practically honor for someone else to make the first move on boards in simul for a simul giver. When the russian president made the opening move for karpov on all boards as g4 he turned to him and said YOU EXPECT ME TO PLAY THAT? I think thats how the story goes.
Still the player grob himself was obviously one who loved suspect openings like the englund gambit d4 e5. He seems intent on playing ANYTHING that will get him out of a positional slugfest. |
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Later Kibitzing > |
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