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Jan-18-06 | | BabsonTask: Tal quote :Help required
In my library I have a chess book that quotes a russian grandmaster, when asked about strong players, saying something along the lines of "Of course, none of us can hold a candle to Mischa" After checking the most likely candidates I can't find the source. Anyone recognize the quote? Thanks in advance.
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Jan-18-06 | | whatthefat: <talisman>
As far as I know, the report is from Joe Gallagher's excellent book, "The Magic of Mikhail Tal", which covers his whole life, but focuses on the period beyond "The Life and Games of Mikhail Tal".Quoting Gallagher's book on this issue:
"After the match with Korchnoi a sort of depression seemed to take hold. True, Tal won a small tournament in Gori, but he then found out that he wasn't in the Soviet team for the Olympiad in Lugano. Korchnoi says that he only found out about his omission from the team at the airport. The vice-chairman of the Sports Committee turned to him and said 'And you Mikhail Nekhemyevich can return to Riga; Smyslov is already in Lugano. He will be replacing you.' Tal says of the period late 1968 to late 1969 'I would very much like to cross out (this year) from my autobiography. It brought me only failures and failures that hurt very deeply.' For much of that year Tal was in very poor health and, according to Sosonko, he even became addicted to opium during this period." I think it should be noted that the two had a warm relationship up to Tal's death, so I see no reason for Genna Sosonko to lie about it. <BabsonTask>
I've heard the quote as well, but never attributed to anyone other than "a grandmaster". I believe it was said during Tal's last decade during one of his tournaments. |
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Jan-18-06 | | Chesstosterone: Dear kibitzers: I am here to root for those players who have style and fighting spirit, those players who have guts. Read my profile, if you are interest to contribute to my descriptions. And if you have better descriptions to any known grandmaster, they are welcome, if you find this a motive of inspiration. Go fighters, lets rescue the chess game to the claws of lazy players or drawing masters with low dose of <chesstosterone>!! Guys! I need I quote for Mikhail Tal, who do you describe his <chesstosterone> level? PS: Any contribution to my quotes (I'll put the respective credit), is welcome, I will update my profile with the best quotes I find so far. And I also accept suggestions in my e-mail address. |
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Jan-18-06 | | SBC: <Chesstosterone>
You got my vote for best handle.
Tal is the eye of the hurricane. |
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Jan-18-06 | | Chesstosterone: <SBC> ha ha, thanks. I will try to update this as frequent as I can, with credit. I don't know what happened, when I opened my membership, I invented several descriptions, but in the case of Tal and Kasparov, I could not find any interesting, my imagination simply does not work well (because these two are too radical in their <chesstosterone> level). Your quote is very good and you will see this in my profile soon (I am just waiting other contributions, and thinking how to organize the quotes, it depends of how many people like the idea). |
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Jan-18-06 | | SBC: <Chesstosterone>
As far as Tal goes... perfect calm in the middle of chaos ... hence, the hurricane's eye. To me, Kasparov is the Gorilla in the Mist. He has Presence and everything and everyone around him somehow becomes subdued. |
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Jan-19-06 | | ianD: Simply TALented!
The most creative player of all time. |
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Jan-19-06 | | Chesstosterone: <SBC> I read you profile and your work (the link) seems very interesting. If I have something special to comment about that, I will tell you (now I am reading the webpage, and I will look for the part on J.L Borges)... |
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Jan-22-06 | | talisman: russian proverb:"Tal is always Tal" |
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Jan-22-06 | | talisman: misspelled:au das au das tou je au das
WHICH IS SUPPOSE TO MEAN AUDACITY,AUDACITY,ALWAYS AUDACITY |
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Jan-29-06 | | whatthefat: While far from being Tal's most perfect game, I suggest that all Tal fans should check out Portisch vs Tal, 1964.
Tal effectively blunders a rook straight out of the opening, and yet draws! Tal's technique of complicating a game to the point where he can see just a little further in the fog, is beautifully showcased. |
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Jan-29-06 | | whatthefat: For anyone interested in the above game, do check out my new
Game Collection: Mind games and tactical gems and please feel free to comment. I'd really like to refine this collection, so if anyone can think of some particularly potent <psychological> battles (esp. involving Tal or Lasker), I'm all ears. Finding beautiful tactical games is not as difficult, as to understand the psychology it's necessary to also know when in the tournament a game was played, and under what conditions. |
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Jan-31-06 | | LluviaSean: suffering from poor health...look!! he's smoking in that picture!! |
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Feb-04-06 | | brankat: <whatthefat> <Mind games and tactical gems> A very nice collection indeed!
Since You want to add more of Tal's games of this "type", I suggest games
Tal-Larsen, Semi-finals, Candidates, Bled,1965. Tal won the match 5.5-4.5
Just about all of the games would be fitting for the above collection.
The games are listed in this database.
Also, there would have to be a number of Alekhine's games which should be suitable. |
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Feb-04-06 | | talisman: LluviaSean: oddball to moriarty(from Kelly's heroes) "There you go with those negagitive waves" |
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Feb-06-06 | | whatthefat: <brankat>
Thanks a lot for that, I've just added the famous decisive final game from his 1965 match with Larsen. |
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Feb-06-06 | | brankat: <Whatthefat> Have a story for You on Dr.Lasker's page, not Alekhine's! Sorry about that. |
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Feb-08-06 | | whatthefat: Who would win a game between the Capablanca of 1918 and the Fischer of 1970? What about the Tal of 1959 playing the Kasparov of 1989? Assessing players from different eras is not at all easy. However, even if the question can't be answered definitively, a lot of fun can be had trying! I've recently been working on a scoring method for absolute playing quality on a scale of 10, for a given player in a given game. Some of the results are given at User: whatthefat. The basic method behind the scoring system is printed at User: Hesam7. I invite any comments or (constructive) criticisms, and hope that you find it interesting. |
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Feb-08-06 | | ughaibu: Whatthefat: I think you should give more weight to the opposition. In your three examples Tal's tournament is clearly the strongest. |
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Feb-08-06 | | whatthefat: <ughaibu>
It's a good point. My hope was that as long as the opposition wasn't complete rubbish (which they'll never be in the big tournaments), I could get a reasonable idea of the "star player" nonetheless.Your point does raise the question of whether it's easier to produce high quality play (by this scale) against weaker opposition. i.e. weaker opposition producing positions that are easier to play. This could maybe be countered by including the quality score of the opponent in the algorithm. For instance, if Tal scores 7 under the original scheme, and his opponent scores only 3, he gets a weighted score that is less than had his opponent scored 6. It's a little bit of a circular argument though, because you could say that the lower quality of the opponent was induced by Tal producing a position that was more difficult to play, in which case Tal's score might need to go up! |
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Feb-08-06 | | Jim Bartle: Truly great games are played against great opponents. Weak opposition collapses too quickly. And by the same token, great games are played by players (e.g Topalov today) who are willing to risk losing a great game (e.g. vs. Shirov 1998, vs. Kasparov 99). In the best games of first 64 Informants (1966-1995): Tal 17 wins, 5 losses
Fischer 17- 7
Kasparov 64-13
Karpov 62-24
Korchnoi 20-22
Larsen 17-10
Anand 8-9
Spassky 23-21
A lot of brilliant losses by brilliant players. |
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Feb-08-06 | | whatthefat: Well in the games I have studied for this scoring system, I'm yet to encounter a really dreadful, quick loss. I suppose that for such an extreme case, a similar method as for "short draws" could be adopted. That is, a default (~6-7/10) score is given, with errors and/or brilliancies thence modifying it. The problem is that, a 4 move checkmate tells as little about the winner's playing quality as an 8 move draw does about either player. There just isn't enough information available. Thankfully, there aren't many of these in the best players' best ever performances, so the impact on the data is hopefully minimal! |
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Feb-08-06 | | talisman: whatthefat:Post your formula-i'm interested, this could be Bill James stuff-Win Shares |
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Feb-08-06 | | Jim Bartle: I think we already have our Bill James: Jeff Sonas.
About the worst quick loss among top players I know is Larsen-Spassky Belgrade 1970--17 moves. If you want to include outright blunders there's Karpov's loss to Christiansen, and the Shirov one last week. |
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Feb-08-06 | | whatthefat: <talisman>
As I am rating moves, rather than doing the statistics of results, there is of course some subjectivity introduced. I've tried to be as quantitative in my approach as possible though, and the scoring system is described at User: Hesam7. |
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