< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|Dec-22-09|| ||Cibator: To all who've been asking about biographies or biographical sources for Winter: his "Memoirs" were serialised in the UK magazine "Chess" during 1962-63. (I forget the exact dates, and the miserable so-and-so I left my copy with when I emigrated has never seen fit to send it on to me as promised.)|
They ran over about 8 issues at 2-3 pages a time, making by my estimate a total of some 12,000 words. There were a few games included, one being the win over Nimzowitsch, and a photo or two.
No mention in them that I recall of any woman influencing his political activities. The trial (before Mr Justice Avory, a character second only to Lord Goddard in notoriety) got a lengthy and amusing account that gave acute insight into police tactics in the courtroom when prosecuting political cases. Winter conducted his own defence: he'd had legal training and had had to earn his living at the law for a time, until he secured a chess column.
In one of the last chapters he took a characteristically severe swipe at C H O'D Alexander (by that time a fairly high-ranking civil servant) for running no fewer than three columns, thus depriving needy would-be chess professionals of some sorely-needed income. (But he gracefully acknowledged Alexander's stature as a player.)
Not unexpectedly, the alcohol problem was denied to exist as such.
|Dec-23-09|| ||sciencegirl: Yes it is William Winter I'm interested in, or rather his connection with my great grandmother -who I don't think had political affiliations herself.|
|Feb-18-10|| ||Tumshie: Sciencegirl, I asked a question about his memoirs way back in November 2005 and was unable to get a copy until a friendly newspaper chess columnist was able to send me copies in (I think) PDF file form. I would be happy to forward copies to you if I knew how, but I'm afraid I am even worse with computers than with endgames.|
|Mar-06-10|| ||sciencegirl: That's alright Tumshie, but thanks for the (sort of) offer! William (Billy) married my great grandmother (but I am descended from her first marriage) and my father knew him quite well. I think they had a good time for a few years but things didn't last and there was another woman later as well. My grandmother was Molly - did Winter mention anything about his personal life in his memoirs I wonder? I think they may have kept the relationship secret to keep the allowance coming in from Barrie.|
|Aug-09-11|| ||Antiochus: 208 games of William Winter are here:
|Nov-19-11|| ||EBB: Tumshie I would very much like to have copies of those pdfs re Billy Winters. It is very easy to attach these to email. Can I contact you?|
|Dec-20-11|| ||AlphaMale: If <V is for Vendetta>, W is for Winter.|
|Apr-16-12|| ||GrahamClayton: Here is a Winter victory that I have just uploaded to the database:|
[Event "1935 BCF-ch"]
[Site "Great Yarmouth"]
[White "William Winter"]
[Black "Stanley Clifford Davey"]
1. d4 f5 2. g3 ♘f6 3. ♗g2 e6 4. ♘h3 ♗e7 5. O-O O-O 6. c4 ♕e8 7. ♘c3 ♗d8 8. ♕b3 ♘c6 9. d5 ♘e5 10. dxe6 dxe6 11. ♗e3 a6 12. ♖ad1 ♘c6 13. ♘f4 ♔h8 14. ♗c5 ♖g8 15. e3 ♖b8 16. ♕c2 b6 17. ♗a3 ♗b7 18. ♖d2 ♘e5 19. b3 ♗xg2 20. ♔xg2 g5 21. ♘d3 ♕c6+ 22. e4 ♘eg4 23. ♗b2 ♘xe4 24. ♘b4 ♕b7 25. ♘xe4+ ♗f6 26. h3 ♘e5
click for larger view
27. ♘d5 ♗g7 28. ♘xg5 exd5 29. ♕xf5 dxc4+ 30. f3 1-0
Source: CHESS, Vol 1, No 1, 14 September 1935
|May-12-12|| ||Diocletian: "Kings of Chess" was my first good chess book, and it remains one of my favorites. In the book Winter annotates games from the world championship matches, presenting them in chronological order with detailed historical introductions and biographies for each match. As a child chess beginner, I was fascinated by the well written accounts of the matches and descriptions of the great players. While most informative on the diverse personalities and exploits of the champions and their challengers, the book never offered a clue as to Winter's own proclivities or politics, neither of which I would criticize.|
|Sep-11-12|| ||Nosnibor: <sciencegirl> With regard to your post on 10th March 2010 I can tell you that William did mention your great grandmother Molly in his memoirs.These are given in his memoirs in the "Chess" magazine vol.28 no.423(New Year 1963 edition).I quote some extracts here."I climbed what seemed miles of dark rickety staircase,knocked on a door,and saw Molly for the first time."(This would be in 1921)Under a subheading called Love he writes "Somehow Molly was different. I am no hand at portraying sentimental emotions and do not intend to try here.Suffice it to say that after our first meeting we wanted too see one another again,and after several such we decided to be together always.There was no objection on the part of Molly`s husband,(Dennis Garrett)who had a Kathleen of his own,and seemed rather grateful to me for taking his wife off his hands,while the fact that we could not get married did not matter two hoots.In those days we cosidered marriage to be a bourgeois anachronism, and indeed I have little use for it even now,except in so far it provides a living for the Junior Bar-I shudder to think of the fate of freshly called barristers if the supply of divorce cases dried up.Ways and means for Molly and me presented a problem.The Hampden club was for men only and I could not change my address without awkward questions from my people" He goes onto say that Sir James Barrie did eventually after two months find out about the liason and he was issued with an ultimatum to give up Molly or lose his allowance.He chose to stay with your great grandmother.He gave up his career in the legal professiom and became a public speaker and writer while Molly obtained casual work machining handbags.I hope that this is of interest to you.|
|Dec-12-12|| ||ami: Wow, thank you Nosnibor, I really had no idea that he had written all this about himself and Molly. Molly's husband died later and then the couple did marry.|
|Feb-25-13|| ||Conrad93: That profile image is just way too cool.|
|Jul-12-14|| ||jerseybob: Cibator:The CHESS annual you're speaking of is Vol.28(Nov.'62-Sept.'63). I recently read Winter's memoirs and they're entertaining, but read with a grain of salt. On p.149, he tells a fable about Hans Kmoch - a much beloved figure in American chess - that makes Kmoch look like a racist troglodyte. The alleged incident stems from Kmoch's game vs. Sultan Khan at the 1930 Hamburg Olympiad. Kmoch's rebuttal letter appears on p.245 of Vol.28. The editor's conclusion: "We believe Mr. Kmoch!"|
|Jul-13-14|| ||MissScarlett: <The CHESS annual you're speaking of is Vol.28(Nov.'62-Sept.'63). I recently read Winter's memoirs and they're entertaining, but read with a grain of salt. On p.149, he tells a fable about Hans Kmoch - a much beloved figure in American chess - that makes Kmoch look like a racist troglodyte.>|
Come now - what did he allegedly say?
|Aug-29-14|| ||chancho: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...|
|Aug-29-14|| ||Retireborn: <MissScarlett> Late reply, but the Khan-Kmoch incident is described on this page:|
Not seen Kmoch's "rebuttal letter".
|Sep-02-14|| ||jerseybob: Alright, alright, you guys are hopeless! Here it is, spoon-fed...[from CHESS(letters section), May 25th,1963, P.245] "Not that it matters, nor that I would cast any blame on the late Winter whom I knew as a perfect gentleman. It is only for the sake of curiosity that I ask permission to comment on Winter's story concerning my game against Sultan Khan. I never asked Winter or anybody else what language Sultan Khan spoke. Nor did I shout(I never do). Sultan Khan and I had met before. What little conversation there was between us was done in English of which we both had a sufficient command for the purpose. Winter, being not asked,had no opportunity to reply "Chess" or anything else. I did not offer a draw three times, nor did Sultan Khan, who never smiled, meet my offers with a smile. Nor again did I resign a few moves later. And I was not the Austrian champion(contests have not been held at all in my active time). Sultlan Khan had white: we played a Giuoco Piano. After a small number of moves, probably 18 or so, a position was reached which I considered as fully satisfactory for black. I offered a draw so as to gain time for my work as a reporter. (I used to be very strict in never offering a draw to anybody unless my position,to the best of my understanding, was fully satisfactory). Sultan Khana accepted my offer outright. The game's ending in a draw is a provable fact.
New York, 17 April 1963 HANS KMOCH"
(We believe Mr. Kmoch! - Editor)
Winter's accusation can be found in CHESS, Feb.23rd 1963, P.149.
|Oct-16-14|| ||zanzibar: At least the picture link <chancho> gives shows more that just the forehead (and nose) of our player:|
|Dec-28-14|| ||MissScarlett: <sciencegirl: That's alright Tumshie, but thanks for the (sort of) offer! William (Billy) married my great grandmother (but I am descended from her first marriage) and my father knew him quite well. I think they had a good time for a few years but things didn't last and there was another woman later as well.>|
Maybe this is the <Evelyn Ethel Olorenshaw, married woman> mentioned here: https://probatesearch.service.gov.u...
|Sep-11-15|| ||The Kings Domain: That's one intense player there. :-)|
|Sep-11-16|| ||MissScarlett: <1921: William Winter (C.N. 1072)|
William R. Hartston (Cambridge, England) submitted the following from the London Evening News of 5 December 1921: ‘A Chess Prodigy Goes Astray Counsel Thinks Brain May Have Been Weakened
A child chess prodigy, William Winter, known afterwards to the police as “a Simple Simon among the Communists” appealed today against a six months’ sentence at Bristol for seditious speeches.>
I looked for a report of the original conviction. The <Sheffield Daily Independent>, November 15th, 1921, took the prize:
Murder Terror Advice to Unemployed.
At Bristol Assizes, yesterday, Percy Glanville (23), was sentenced to nine months' imprisonment for sedition. It was stated that, addressing a meeting of unemployed, he said the time was approaching when men in the Army and Navy would shoot their officers.
They did not want to get their views recognised by votes, but by killing the capitalist class, and "the time would come when Lloyd George would hang from a lamp-post." Prisoner said he only advocated the killing of capitalism, not capitalists.
William Winter (27) was sentenced to six months' imprisonment for sedition. It was stated he advocated the collection of money for the unemployed from shopkeepers by threatening to break windows, the seizure of public buildings by force, the killing of constables who might try to eject them, and the ejection of landlords who turned out tenants.
He also said they should "drive the caapitalist off their back at the point of the bayonet." Prisoner denied the chargee, and said he never used the word bayonet.
The police reported that Winter was a Hampshire man, educated at Cambridge University. He served in the H.A.C. during the war. but had since associated with Communists and revolutionaries, by whom he was regarded as a "simple Simon".>
|Nov-12-16|| ||MissScarlett: Apparently, Winter's birth date is 1897:
|Jan-16-17|| ||Barbarartist: sciencegirl, What was your great-grandmother Molly's last name, her maiden name, do you know?|
|Jul-20-17|| ||mifralu: < zanzibar: At least the picture link <chancho> gives shows more that just the forehead (and nose) of our player:>|
Stock Photo - William Winter 1898 1955 British chess player
|Jul-30-18|| ||Mandydean: Hi there from a newbie, I confess I am not a chess player it's just I stumbled across this thread when researching William Winter and was very surprised to see a member say they were the g granddaughter to his 'Molly' would love to know more.
Welcome any response, thank you for reading my post and sorry it's not chess related :) kind regards Mandy|
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