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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 104 OF 284 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Oct-08-05 | | SBC: <DrKurtPhart>
Herr Doktor, I wasn't quite sure what the little picture was that describes my role on the Morphy page, but closer examination (using my electron magnifying glass) helped me identify myself as the Morphy Chia Pet. I can live with that.
<Pawn Ambush>
<compose a ten move game if you can.> I see no point since <Paul Morphy> himself has presented the game. And I must say, it is indeed very Morphyish and encompasses all the elements from the stylistic journalism - and is quite clever, to boot. I couldn't improve upon it although I had half-expected the General to try 8...Nd4 - with the same unfortunate result. Just in passing, I think it's easy to pass judgments on folks like Staunton and Scott based on some perceptions about their relations with Morphy, but I have trouble seeing Staunton as cowardly nor Scott as so dottering. These were both highly intelligent, courageous and capable men - which is something that actually enhances Morphy's relations with them |
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| Oct-09-05 | | tiburon92: has there ever been a modern autopsy on Morphy's remains? |
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Oct-09-05
 | | IMlday: SBC: "...I have trouble seeing Staunton as cowardly..." Well, yes, that is the myth that Edge spun. In fact Staunton's big successes against the French and German GM's was in the early 1840's when he was in relatively good health. It deteriorated and by 1851 there were obviously better players, especially Anderssen. By 1856 Staunton was living off a chess magazine editorship, a newspaper column and shilling-a-game odds play at Simpson's; not easy to support a family that way. Routledge rescued him with an offer to annotate
the complete Shakespeare in a monthly serial edition followed by a three-volume luxury hardback with over 800 lavish illustrations by Sir John Gilbert. So, 1857-1860 Staunton had money but also a contract and deadlines to meet. Taking off a couple of monthes for a Morphy match was not feasible, nor legal. But Staunton did come out of retirement to enter a short knock-out tournament, Birmingham, 1858. (Lowenthal knocked him out 2-0 in the second round.) Morphy had first entered this event, then changed his mind and went to Paris instead. Edge managed to spin these facts for American fans into the myth of Staunton having 'cowardly' avoided playing Morphy!
(ref. "Howard Staunton, Keene and Coles, B.C.M. Quarterly 17, 1975.) |
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| Oct-09-05 | | DrKurtPhart: Dear <SBC> it was th symbol for 'Queen' that I got by putting letter 'Q' in between the little squiggley things { on my keyboard , resulting in making ♕} . It works also for K R B N & P for th whole set of symbol chesspieces. But surely you know all this. Its like a new toy i found a while back in 'kibitzing tricks' |
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Oct-09-05
| | IMlday: ♔ ♕ ♖ ♘ ♗ ♙
Golly! Learn something every day! :-) |
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| Oct-09-05 | | DrKurtPhart: Little BigHorn Open 1876
Crazy Horse v Gen Armstrong Custer.
mate in 1.
.... ..............♘.................
...........♗............♖..........
.......♕...♙....
.....♙.........♔ (bK).......♘
......♖...♘
.........♙♙♙♙♙♙♙♙♙♙♙♙♙♙...♗....
.............♔♙♙♙♙♙♙♙♙}.............♙......
...♙♙.............
solution: |
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| Oct-09-05 | | lblai: IMlday continues not to identify any false statements
or indeed anything specifically wrong with what Edge wrote.
He relies on Keene and Coles who managed to make
Staunton look blameless by simply leaving out those parts of
the story that would reflect badly on Staunton. Staunton
caused everyone to believe that he was going to play a
match with Morphy, then quietly delayed the match, then
tried to deceive people about who was delaying the match,
then decided that he was not going to play the match, then
put off telling people that he was not going to play the
match, and then resorted to belligerent ridicule in reaction to
complaints. Staunton even had the nerve to try to insinuate
that Morphy was the one trying to avoid Staunton. The
supposedly "short" Birmingham tournament was planned to go
on until one of the participants had accumulated nine
victories. Staunton's commitments did not keep him from
signing up, and yet not a single recorded Morphy-Staunton
game took place during Morphy's visit to London. Morphy had
been led by Staunton to believe that a Staunton-Morphy
match was going to be possible some time after the
Birmingham tournament. Staunton himself used the phrase
"little preliminary skirmish" in connection with the possibility
that he might have played Morphy at Birmingham. With the
knock-out format of the tournament, there was no
guarantee that Morphy would have had the opportunity to
play Staunton even if he had participated. Having already
played most of the other notable tournament participants,
Morphy made the understandable decision to try to play
some chess in Paris while waiting for Staunton to finish his
match preparations. The result was the Morphy-Harrwitz
that has provided enjoyment for chessplayers ever since.
Edge commented that Staunton lacked the courage to admit
that Morphy was better than Staunton. What exactly is
IMlday's objection?
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Oct-09-05
 | | Gypsy: To be frank <lblai>, no new facts are comming from either side; all the difference I see is in the framing of the events. |
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| Oct-09-05 | | lblai: I made no claim about providing "new facts". I sought
to provide relevant information that had been left out by the
account of another. |
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| Oct-09-05 | | SBC: <IMlday>
While I don't see Staunton as cowardly, I also don't see him as completely honorable either. Like so many great men, his tragic flaw seemed to be pride and his pride prevented him from simply stating flat-out the he would not play a match with Morphy, citing all the reasons why. At the Birmingham Meeting, after being given the royal runaround, Morphy confronted Staunton before important witnesses askng him "Mr. Staunton, will you play in October, in November, or December? Chose your own time but let the decision be final." Staunton replied, "Well, Mr. Morphy, if you will consent to the postponement, I will play you the beginning of November. I will see my publishers and let you know the exact date in a few days." One of the witnesses was Lord Lyttleton, president of the British Chess Association. Morphy went to France to spend his time wisely before the agreed upon match in November. While in France, he received Staunton's final capitulation on Oct. 9. However, even after ending negotiations for a match, Staunton continued to badger Morphy in the press. Morphy, as a result of Staunton's machinations, felt coerced to eventually apply to Lord Lyttleton to exonerate himself from any dishonorable conduct ( http://batgirl.atspace.com/AppealLe... ) and Lord Lyttleton's reply did just that while avoiding any personal attack on Staunton. ( http://batgirl.atspace.com/AppealRe... ). Staunton's behavior was censored by every chess club, except one (Cambridge University Chess Club), in England. Staunton was no coward, but he was seemingly no gentleman, at least in certain situations, either. And it's sad too because the result has been that Staunton's great contributions to chess have taken a backseat to this one situation ... and hence the often twisted attempts at rehabilitating Staunton's legacy. Just as Morphy's reputation is in no way enhanced by denigratng Staunton, Staunton's contributions can stand on their own merit without denying his (highly documented) behavior towards Morphy. |
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| Oct-09-05 | | SBC: <lblai>
Mr. Blair, may I pick your brain for a moment?
When the N.O. chess club wrote to Staunton first proposing a match between Morphy and Staunton, most people assume it's because Americans considered Staunton the best player in the world - a sentiment that seemed to have had become a standing joke among some English and German players. Personally, I think they chose Staunton because of his renown as a chess writer/journalist, the name-recognition factor. Morphy later claimed he went to England expressly to play Staunton, but it also seems to me he went obstensibly to play in the Birmingham Meeting since he needed his family's permission (and money) and they strictly forbade playing for stakes, something that any match would require. Once in England, Morphy didn't seem too concerned about his family's wishes and the charade of playing in the Birmingham tournament vanished - in fact Morphy didn't think too highly of tournaments as an measure of a player's strength (and measuring his own strength seemed to be his real purpose). However, there seems to be no way that Morphy could have considered playing Staunton tantamount to playing a match against the "world champion." Why do you suppose this match, while there was still a chance of it occuring, seemed so important to Morphy? Or do you even think it WAS important to Morphy? |
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| Oct-09-05 | | SBC: <lblai>
You might also find this of some interest, particularly since <Gypsy> is looking for something new:
http://batgirl.atspace.com/anotherv... |
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| Oct-09-05 | | DrKurtPhart: Lets get the facts straight here.
Elvis never toured Europe.
Morphy did.
Elvis's manager, Col Tom Parker (real name= some dutch name) was an illegal dutch immigrant and former carnival man in usa(true) Thats th reason E only played Hawai (a beautiful little set of islands in the Pacific stolen from the laidback grass-skirted natives [see: Indians of the Pacific] :honolulu gold: ) And E's military service in Germany was seen as uneccessary for Parker, (illegal Imm=non-re entry to USA) to be in attendance (result: Big E met a 14 yr old chick and married her), in effect sub-conscienciously divorcing Parker. Edge was Parker in reverse, managing Ms promotion and affairs in a pushy, meddlesome,over zealous, interventionalist fashion. If Edge had been Parker, Elvis wouldve played every club, dive, and fish and chip shop in england & pizza joint in Europe. Similarly, if Parker had managed M, he, M, wouldve only played in Las Vegas, Hawai and Hollywood, avoiding at all costs visiting Europe.(illegal immigrant remember) Except on military service, of which M had an marked aversion for, preferably spending time fighting peaceful insignificant battles, blindfolded in Cuba and Paris (quote: "It means nothing, Insignificant" , M on his blindfold simul brilliancy) instead of "proper" matches at meetings in Gettysburg and Harper's Ferry CC. [see: Clark Gabble's games in 'Gone with the Wind') [Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!] Upon mating Scarlett on the chessclub floor. priceless. If Staunton had been Custer, he would've charged hot headedly and inebriatedly (see opposite: foolhardedly- cowardedly) into a match in London with Morphy, as custer did against crazy horse, and lost a match as convincingly as Custer did against CH, in his disastrous match (1876 Little Big Horn CC Dakota) [see: chess news, wild west section 1877 analysis: games, (titanic battles.) ] Parker wouldn't have let Custer (staunton) charge blindfoldedly into a match or simul against Crazy horse, and his club, (CH's), consisting of thousands of savage members, due to Elvis/staunton being a capricious, unpredictable hick and fond of fried bacon and banana sandwiches, and flying in his private jet, not dissimilar to staunton (roast beef and potatoes, 2 veg, at simpsons and horse &carriage rides to Deacons house, to 'game forge' at the selfcentred despicable, secret gameforgers club they ran in the West End of London, in cahoots with Rev Owen. (1850s Eng) Custer/staunton would have requested a little time to "brush up" his opening charges, but would possibly consent to a few "skirmishes", in Birmingham, alabama, thereby as a 'result' realised that he, Custer/Staunton wouldve been annihalated by Crazy Horse, (Morphy), and wouldve retreated back to Fort apache (thats rich.) or, in 'reality': [Simpson's on the Strand] with errol flynn, but with his boots still on, and scalp intact. (reputation intact, or in tatters , depending on which journal you wrote for, or subscribed to.)
As a result Custer wouldve lived, to run away another day, (Staunton London 1858), and Crazy Horse wouldve been left to roam the plains complaining about Staunton's refusal of a match OTB.
(morphy's return to America minus Staunton's scalp, which wouldve possibly turned out to be a toupee anyway, made out of chicken hair, on further analysis.) bummer. |
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| Oct-09-05 | | DrKurtPhart: Added to this, if the 'Titanic' had been built 53 years earlier, it couldve been carrying M back to America in 1859 when it would have sunk, M, naturally being the hero swimming around saving everybody and singing with the band. whereas.. Staunton wouldve probably spread false rumours and concocted analysis on how he saved his reputation and steered the unsinkable Titanic/Ego, to calmer waters, thereby avoiding the Iceberg/(Morphy), and spending th rest of his (staunton's) days in glory as the hero that saved the Titanic, thereby avoiding a match with Morphy, but in the long run having to pay for avoiding the potentially ruinous collision with the Mountain Iceberg, from New Orleans. details details. |
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| Oct-09-05 | | DrKurtPhart: If Morphy had played Custer's position at the LBHCC Open meeting, he would have had no trouble giving up significant the very significant odds, as C did, to Crazy Horse. (contributing to his, C's, complete, glorious defeat, a result of the mishandling of estimations of space and time, and hotheaded 'outflanking' maneuvers, with insufficient material.) C had not bargained on an endgame that called for overwhelming defensive resources on his part, and was eventually mated after a spirited, but inevitable, showing against the avalanche of CH's pawns and rampaging cavalry, going down in glorious flames. M, on the other hand, by simply referring to his prodigious memory-file of his past glory in battles, with or without giving up overwhelming odds, would calming sacrifice all sorts of troops and officers all overe the field. eg. See: famous Opera House battle, Paris 1858. in which M handed the combined armies of European a monumental history-changing defeat, after sacrificing nearly all his officers and cavalry, in a tremendous sacrificial multi-dimensional offensive action, (similar to a 'Pickett's Charge' style attack, game, except with decisively victorious results, in M's case, unfortunately for the Europeans, and all others.) Morphy would have surmised that Crazy Horse had all his pieces disassembled in a big unruly sort of rabble, and ruled by a general confusion*, straining at the bit, eager to get on with the game, screaming and shouting things. Jubilantly over-confident at the odds they were receiving. M would probably have deployed a 'Napoleonic style' of entering the fray, by dividing and conquering. First he would dispatch his cavalry on diversionary expeditions, while advancing his infantry after placing his artillery to the centre, and right if Crazy Horse wished to follow the risky King's pawn opening war path. In the event of CH playing a KG accepted line, then M would have developed his cavalry from the right-centre, and eventually sacrifice more infantry and heavy artillery, enticing CH into over-estimating his chances, and lulling him into the dreaded 'False Sense of Security' trap...The FSSzzz, in which * Not to be confused with General Confusion of the French Grande Army under N.Bonaparte, 1812.
Emperor of the Universe dept.
See: "Waterloo Sunset", by 'The Kinks' played in 1963, London, for further listening. |
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| Oct-09-05 | | DrKurtPhart: .. the opponent becomes lethargic and drowsy with false content and non-alertedness. Staunton, on the other hand, given Crazy Horse's position to play, would have undoubtedly employed a delaying tactic, and avoided contact at all costs, whereas Elvis, with Custer's position would probably have trashed the pieces, and thrown them, and Staunton, out of the window, followed by himself, shotgun blazing, thereby claiming victory on grounds of moral assault. E, not known for his calm, patient play, would possibly have overplayed his hand at mishandling Crazy Horse's forces. Given to a petulant, instant-reward style of obsessive possessive opening play, Elvis would have soon been complaining about something or other, like his kissin cousin, Bobby Presley, in Rejkjavik, 1972. similar to many other pop-crooners, grandmasters and generals, when the game of war takes on the mantle of honour, befitting of being bestowed with more importance than being seen as merely just a game. |
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| Oct-09-05 | | James Demery: Is it my imagination or has the number of games fluctuated for Morphy? Have more games been found for him? |
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| Oct-09-05 | | DrKurtPhart: Edge, meanwhile would have sided with the perceived victor, or in a Staunton(Crazy Horse) v Elvis (Custer) game, his choice of allegiance would have been adjourned, and decided closer to the mid or end-battle, when it would be easier to deduce who was going to win. We all know the result of Crazy Horse v Custer, 1876. (1-0), (Or, in basketball terms 227-5
97-3 in football
20-1 in soccer
37-2 in baseball
6-0 6-0 6-0 tennis
147-0 snooker
KO in 1st boxing
32-0 icehockey etc)
But, Edge undoubtedly would've chosen Elvis over Staunton,
or Crazy Horse over Deacon, or Rev. Owen.
Deacon over Elvis,
Crazy Horse over Col Tom Parker
Rev Owen over Col Tom Parker
Crazy Horse over Deacon
Tom Parker over Elvis, and...
Morphy over all of them, blindfold.
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Oct-09-05
| | IMlday: http://batgirl.atspace.com/AppealLe...
Easy to toss both Staunton and Morphy,
as templates for mental health, as prideful and/or 'pompous'.
It was tres cerebral compared to Brit-Yank wars circa 1775-1812.
It was more like a ritualized duel.
Actually, accordian Buddhism or Taoism or psychology that's good; sublimating violence to physically harmless human channels,
but Morphy's letter sounds much like a duel challenge! Maybe Edge wrote it and Paul signed it with his big extravagant signature.
Despite my wonderful judgement and Canadian credentials as objective arbiter in all matters regarding Yank-Brit disputes, I have to recuse myself.
Recently I played the Staunton Memorial and met several members of the Staunton Society who treated me to gourmet food at the modern Simpson's Divan; a second sublimation. Only if the Morphy Society in New Orleans (oops gone) bribing me with room and board, & opportunity to play legend Jude Acers, well then yes possibly, but I too am a freelance journalist slave. |
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| Oct-10-05 | | DrKurtPhart: Edge certainly would have intervened and negotiated some sort of misunderstanding with Crazy Horse and General Consensus, (him again), would have proved that the condoning of meddling with arrangements, and cloudying up the air with vague promises and flimsy excuses, would lead to eventual condemnation and derisory capitulation flavoured with scornful dismissal from the field. Staunton would then have time to publish some slanderous lies about Crazy Horse and/or Sitting Bull, accusing them of muddying the waters, and throwing spokes in the wheels of progress. Custer should have, like Staunton, made an excuse to Crazy Horse, citing pressing literary matters or something, and retired from the field for the day, to "brush up" some of his openings etc.
while, all the while secretly planning to link up for consultation with Bentine, and the rest of them. (Deacon, Owen, Buffalo Bill) All those he'd left behind in his "RTG" [rush to glory.] (Pecos Bill, Lash La Rue, Roy Rogers, Tex Ritter, Tom Mix, Gene Autrey, Hopalong Cassidy, Cisco Kid, Lone Ranger, Pancho, Tonto, Cheyenne Bodie, Ward Bond, Audie Morphy, (no relation) Gil Favor, Marion Morrison.) (who?) All in order to, quote: "Never Reverse a Custer Decision." (John Wayne would've taken care of business, and single-handedly wiped out the Indians and their main staple food,buffalo-burgers, sending the bill to the chief, and getting all the gold, and the girl too, btw.) So, Custer had a major issue problem with his ego/Titanic, of course, and the personal 'NRaCD' stakes for him were of highest order and importance, in his rating of glory, and decisions in the glory and rushed decisions dept. These two issues were always of standard, paramount importance and the main order of conducting his day, rush and glory, so he couldn't be seen to be backing down, or needing overnight analysis or help of any kind. Staunton would never have even considered the option of the Custer method: Headlong into the Flames of Glory. Had Custer (37) somehow lived to be Staunton's age (50ish) when he met Morphy,(21ish) then perhaps he wouldn't have had to make a last stand, And Custer would've been better positioned and prepared to make a second last stand somewhere else first. With an improved field, or engagement conditions, better lighting and lots of the more heavier pieces, etc. (but much less points on the glory chart.) But, nooo |
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| Oct-10-05 | | DrKurtPhart: Custer would reason that glory is not to be found in retreat, which earns a sort of grudging respect from skeptics and critics, as long as you get away with it, but your first loss could be your last, and with such high-risk play, Custer's number was always primed to pop up at any given battle. Probably, like the moment Staunton saw Morphy for the first time, he felt like Custer, after he witnessed how Morphy had dumbfounded and wiped out the entire constellation of the premier chess players, and champions in England. With one stupendous display of blindfold simul upon his arrival in England, in summer 1858, leaving Staunton like a deer in the wagon, or carriage lights, as he was well aware that he had been singled out as the main victim, and sacrificial lamb, to be gently and politely butchered by the former, in most satisfactory surroundings. Staunton must have felt like Custer at that moment, and the chivalrous thing to do was, as Custer, and get routed, hung, drawn and quartered or, do as he did, and initially attempt to wheedle and wriggle his way out of a match with Morphy, Which gradually developed into a saliently venomous aversion for the truth, and outright falsifications and lies, towards the end of the negotiations. Edge, more than likely, if in any of the aboves employ, would have got fired by all the other contestants, and "hurried home" to write a book about it. Emerging only to write to Fiske once in a while, after laying low for a week or so, complaining about Staunton, or one of his cronies (Deacon, RevOwen etc.) tardiness in putting up, even the vestiges of an insult. No way would Elvis have put up with Edge's meddlesome interventionism. Elvis wouldve had him "Taken Care Of" by "The Boys" ( Da Memphis Mafia) and don' some serious TCB with the Memphis mafia, to " 'Take Care' of this limey bastard" Edge's last book and testament in that case, might have been "I knew Elvis, before he got washed-up and bloated in Las Vegas, at Heartburn Hotel, and he blew me away." |
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| Oct-10-05 | | Paul Morphy: <Staunton Society who treated me to gourmet food> Was it duck or chicken? :-) |
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Oct-10-05
| | IMlday: The breakfast was (my choice) cheese ommelette and the finale supper was roastbeef.
It was excellent! |
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| Oct-10-05 | | lblai: I do not have any of my references handy at the
moment, but here is my attempt to answer the question of
SBC from memory: I think there has been some exaggeration
about the importance that was supposedly attached to a
Morphy-Staunton match by Morphy. Morphy challenged
Staunton - something that was only natural under the
circumstances. Staunton led everyone to believe that it was
only a matter of Morphy going along with Staunton's "wishes"
about the terms of play. There then followed months of
Morphy waiting for Staunton to specify what his wishes
were. Staunton tried to have everyone believe that the
match was being delayed because of Morphy. Again, it was
eventually only natural for Morphy to try to see to it that
the public knew his "true position with reference to"
Staunton. By the way, I see no reason to dismiss Morphy's
apparently sincere intention to play in Birmingham as a
"charade". He set out for Birmingham upon his arrival in
England, only to discover that the event had been
rescheduled. By the time that the rescheduled event took
place, Morphy had already played most of the notable
players there. With an indication from Staunton that a
Staunton-Morphy match was going to be possible after some
further delay, it was understandable that Morphy decided to
use the intervening time for another important match. |
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Oct-10-05
| | IMlday: Perhaps Staunton was embarrassed to admit to Morphy, or his column readers, that he had become Routledge's 'wage slave'? Apparently he had 'squandered' his inheritance,
whereas Morphy, much younger and with no family to support, was still living off his.
In 1858 chess 'tournaments' were still a novel idea. Staunton had invented the concept back 1851. That Morphy didn't compete at Birmingham 1858 is a sad fact of history for chess fans. He came, thought about it, and left for Paris. There are many ways to analyse history--why things happened or didn't happen. Staunton, retired, doesn't seem to have a big role except as an excuse for Morphy's withdrawal. As the result of the tournament showed, Morphy's best challenge in England was Lowenthal. That match didn't happen either!
<WMD> Everybody ate roast beef except vegetarians like Jon Speelman seated across from me. I had Lord Harding on my right and GM Colin McNab from Dundee on my left. The beef came on a trolley, rare, but if one wanted it 'well-done' that was an easy possible alternative. Personnally I like it rare. The potatoes and salad were also excellent.
A long, long time ago Simpson's management discovered that the world's top gourmands were a better source of revenue than the world's top chess players eh. Yet the lobby, before enterring the restaurant, has a veritable museum of old chess stuff in glass cases, regarding the place's history. The restaurant does have a dress code. Instead of entering it, one could go upstairs to a bar which doubled as the smoking lounge for the Staunton Memorial. Weirdest person I met there was a Dutch-Ozzie millionaire trying to pay his bill without being allowed into the dining room downstairs. He was trying to pay them for martinis while wearing shorts. It was pretty funny.
The first thing that the 'Staunton Society' accomplished was relocating his grave from an area which had been flooded. Are there rich Americans who would do the same for Morphy? |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 104 OF 284 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
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Kibitzing
