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| May-27-11 | | BobCrisp: <To this day I wonder how you can make a hobby out of it. Do you open up a little Marxism stand on the corner, or what?> Stamps of the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, Angola etc. |
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| May-27-11 | | BUNA: Just to expand <bronkenstein>'s sentences a bit (a better place would probably be Kasparovs page): Karpov after Baguio was given a "special status". Privileges, you know.
Kasparov was a member of the central committee of the communist youth (KOMSOMOL). And was, by the way, the only russian chess kid, that had personal trainers during his youth (of cause because of his talent). And Botvinnik? Those, who do understand a little bit of russian, may be interested in this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D9S...
Boris Gulko, a victim of the system, talks about his book "KGB plays chess" and about Botvinnik. And Botvinniks only crime, that Gulko considers worth to mention, is the "absolute championship". I thought there was more in stock. |
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| May-27-11 | | BobCrisp: <Kasparov seemed to be the most opportunistic of these 3 , even trying to reverse it and profit on his projected freedom fighter image later on.> Back in the day, <Kasparov>'s favourite author was said to be, if memory serves, <Lion Feuchtwanger>, and he thought the poetry of <Lermontov> was to die for. |
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| May-27-11 | | bronkenstein: BTW his stamp collection alone is evaluated to be 13 million euros worth , if I remember correctly the info from one of the ˝happy 60th birthday˝ articles . |
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| May-27-11 | | BUNA: <bronkenstein> "His stamp collection" of cause means "Karpovs stamp collection". Sorry to follow like a shadow or, as in the old days, like a KGB officer. =) |
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| May-27-11 | | bronkenstein: Okidoki , it seemed obvious to me that Karpov is the only stamp collector in this discussion . And on Lermontov and Feuchtwanger , IMO kasparow will swear that KGB twisted his arm during that interwiew =) |
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| May-27-11 | | AVRO38: <As a 'Chess King' I have always tried to fortify and unite the multinational kingdom of chess, and not to cause division within it. I will remain faithful to that principle in my old age.> This is not an apology, just a pledge to be more diplomatic. <..the only russian chess kid> Kasparov isn't Russian! |
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May-27-11
 | | alexmagnus: <As a 'Chess King' I have always tried to fortify and unite the multinational kingdom of chess, and not to cause division within it. I will remain faithful to that principle in my old age> Well, the letter of 5000 didn't cause division within <chess>. It was written by a Russian antisemitic organisation (with a motto "To live without the fear of Jews") and called for closure of all Jewish organisations in Russia, peppered with some obscure and taken out of context quotes from the Jewish literature and ritual murder accusations. Actually, for those who really want to know what it was about, the text of it is still on the organisations' site (http://www.rusidea.org/?a=2302). Spassky says it was "a mistake"? I wonder which state of mind he might have had while commiting this mistake... |
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| May-27-11 | | AVRO38: <Spassky says it was "a mistake"? I wonder which state of mind he might have had while commiting this mistake...> By "mistake" he means he should have been more diplomatic as a former World Champion. He has never stated that he doesn't agree with the general thesis of the letter, nor should he. People are entitled to their opinions and should not be bullied into pretending that they don't agree with something that they actually do agree with. Spassky's views are far less extreme than those of Botvinnik, but I don't hear anyone questioning the state of mind of Botvinnik for supporting a regime that was responsible for the slaughter of over 20 million innocent people. |
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| May-27-11 | | bronkenstein: <the slaughter of over 20 million innocent people.> Any links? |
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May-27-11
 | | keypusher: <bronkenstein: <the slaughter of over 20 million innocent people.>
Any links?>
Especially for the "innocent" part. |
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| May-27-11 | | I play the Fred: According to Soltis, Kasparov often quoted the poet Vladimir Vytovsky. |
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| May-27-11 | | BUNA: <alexmagnus><AVRO38> First of all in respect towards the accusations made against Spasski I simply wanted to cite a source and what he really had to say.
You may regard that as an apology or not. OK.
And towards <AVRO38> <<..the only russian chess kid>
Kasparov isn't Russian!>
No, he isn't. But would it have made any difference, had I used the proper term "soviet" instead of the colloquial "russian"? When there's a book about "Russians against Fischer"? <Spassky's views are far less extreme than those of Botvinnik, but I don't hear anyone questioning the state of mind of Botvinnik for supporting a regime that was responsible for the slaughter of over 20 million innocent people.> Between 1928 and 1953 a lot of communists were deported to the GULAGs. 40.000 soviet officers were killed between 1936 and 1938. Have you asked any of them whether they were stalinist or communist?
Have you asked Shostakovich?
Or Prokofiev, who went back to the USSR in 1936?
I certainly think, that this topic is worth a discussion, but not necessarily within the narrow boundaries of a chess forum. (I myself made a weak attempt with Keres' simuls.) |
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| May-27-11 | | BUNA: <I play the Fred: According to Soltis, Kasparov often quoted the poet Vladimir Vytovsky.> Who was/could be regarded as a democratic socialist and drove a Mercedes. State sponsored. And was married to the french actress Maria Vlady. How about that? |
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| May-27-11 | | bronkenstein: Someone here caled him ˝Soltis the sourceless˝ , referring to his stories (for example famous Zurich 1953 plot theory) sometimes elaborated to tiny details , as if he himself was there holding the mike , sometimes without even an attempt of evidence. Since i CBAed to dig through the forums history , I will also remain linkless on this =) |
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| May-27-11 | | I play the Fred: It was actually Edward Winter who called him Sourceless Soltis. Doesn't necessarily mean he was wrong about the Vytovsky thing. |
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| May-27-11 | | bronkenstein: Of course , I play the Fred . The mentioning of his name rang the ˝sourceless˝ bell , that´s all . I am sorry if it sounded as anything else but simple digression. |
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| May-27-11 | | I play the Fred: No need to apologize. I was just being anal.
BTW, I like both writers, but "Sourceless Soltis" is pretty funny. |
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| May-27-11 | | bronkenstein: Unfortunately i stumbled over the ˝sourceless˝ label before I had the chance to read anything from him , so it , kinda , prevented me from reading anything more but the scarps quoted in ˝Zurich plot˝ flamewars here. Winter is, on the other hand , bit too textwallish to my taste , but I managed , out of curiosity rather than amusement by his writing technique , to digest his ˝volumes˝ on who-said-what on that topic. |
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| May-27-11 | | Everett: <There, according to Gik, Spassky remarked: "Everything is good in Russia, but I don't know how the Russian people can have allowed so many big-nosed people into government." Gik said that several grandmasters left the table in protest.> Interesting quote from the cited article. It reminds me of another rumor that Spassky really despised Petrosian... Honestly, it is sad, this "us and them" garbage, true or not. I like Bronstein's sentiment of "we are all one big family of chess amateurs." of course despite this thinking, or perhaps because of it, he never got over his feelings toward Botvinnik. |
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| May-27-11 | | M.D. Wilson: <madlydeeply: Spassky was lazy? I think the '75 candidates final with Karpov broke him... he said somewhere that he played better chess than against Fischer '72. You could say the laziest player is Kasparov! Kramnik broke him....then he got soooo laaaazyy HA. Huh, for that matter, Fischer became pretty darn lazy after he won the WC. Fishcer was absolutely the laziest player.> It's common knowledge that Boris worked less hard than his opponents and got by on natural talent, and therefore got the reputation of being lazy, much like Capablanca before him. Still, Igor Bondarevsky added some fire to the belly and made him work harder. His preparations before the 1972 match were less than satisfactory, according to those on his team, but this may have been due to overconfidence on his part. Karpov, like Spassky, wasn't a grinder, either. Korchnoi and Fischer certainly were! Portisch was the master of grind. Spassky wasn't crushed by Fischer and remained strong for some time; he won the 1973 USSR Championship in tremendous style, which was somewhat of an embarrassment for the Soviet chess authorities for obvious reasons. It was Karpov who destroyed Spassky's chances of rising to the absolute top again. Karpov was his toughest opponent, according to the man himself. |
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| May-27-11 | | Imposter: good comment |
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| May-28-11 | | AVRO38: < Any links?> <Especially for the "innocent" part.> Here's a good place to start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_k... The estimate given here is between 21 and 70 million civilians killed by Communist governments. |
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May-28-11
| | alexmagnus: Being a communist doesn't necesarily mean supporting the oppresive regimes which existed under this name - it may also mean believing in communism as the "final goal". |
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| May-28-11 | | Imposter: or simply hopping on the bad wagon as an avenue to protection, privileges and power. |
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