But of course: The devil is in the details (other peoples details, that is).

don't

eat

Better said: You are missing the whole point !

You are making several severe mistakes that I can't blame you for not knowing, but what I can blame you for is that you are so sure about your knowledge and especially regarding texts that you haven't studied in Hebrew, the original language. Do you perhaps happen to know Hebrew ?
If so, I will take your postings more seriously !
If not, try to respect what the consequences might be for us regarding your writing. You can only study the Torah in Hebrew !
It is impossible in an interpretation to another language as there are so many complications regarding the Hebrew words. So much is hidden and that's why we are studying what is written during very intensive discussions how to interpret only a simple verse every single day.

The text that you are refering to in http://skepticsannotatedablebible.c... is amusing to some extent, but I did find almost immediately a grave mistake. In "Genesis" in the beginning it is written *the first day*. It is wrong as it in Hebrew is written "yom echad" - *one day*.
Then it continues
with "yom sheni" - *second day*.

Still we don't know why this is so. And the whole Torah continues with intricate problems like this. Torah means teaching and not law as it so often is misinterpreted.

You cannot refer to the Protestant Bible. It is only one interpretation and besides this became Luther a notorious anti-Semite, when we refused to convert into Christianity. He wrote texts that were inspiring for many of the leading Nazis, especially Julius Streicher who was the editor of "Der Stürmer" !

If you don't believe in G-D is nothing that I will hold against you as I myself have a tremendous difficulties with the concept of G-D.

Why is it so difficult to recognize that Spassky has done a terrible thing by signing this petition. Do you take anti-Semitism so easily ?
Do you ignore racism in general as it's none of your concern ?

Is it so difficult for you to imagine how I as a Jew feel by daily being confronted with anti-Semitic sentiments and insinuations ?

It's so easy for so many of you to judge until you are facing the problems yourself.

The Americans didn't understand what terrorism was before September 11, 2001, but now they understand.

Is it not obvious for you that todays anti-Semitism in Europe is caused by such a bad conscience that it's not possible to handle in another way than again blame us Jews. This is a psychological dilemma for Europe, who still is suffering from the Nazism, who destroyed the soul of the Europeans for decades. We are facing this trauma now in this very moment.

Don't you understand that Spassky is a model for many persons and in this way he does terrible harm with his anti-Semitism.

You sit safely in your country, where nobody is questioning your right to exist or have your own country.

Inspite of this we human beings have the possibility to feel empathy.

Of course, I am deeply honoured that you don't regard me as evil, when I am fighting for my fellow Jews. I am not so religious. I am observant, but we Jews have another relationship with G-D than most people. We pray to G-D out of devotion, but we are also furious on G-D and we argue with G-D, because so many things are not possible to accept regarding human suffering in general. For me it's not important whether a person believe in G-D or not. For me is the most important to fight against hatred, wherever it exists.

I managed to puchase this video, "George Wallace" former Alabama governor, he was assassinated but lived, had to endure a wheelchair for the rest of his life. And, he may not have even been that racist at heart, but through opportunism with the hot segregation issue in the South, got into power and even had fair success in obtaining votes for the presidency.

I have spoken in the past, Russia with it's legends of great chessplayers; but how about other sports? In football/soccer now, which many of the country would be passionate about, they have absolutely been flops in International Competition for about the last 18 years. It's one thing, if they can not keep up with France or England, but not even with Greece or the Czech Republic?

They tied one of those small Baltic countries not to long ago. I saw France has tied Israel two times in recent football/soccer qualifications.

Good points, one can be indifferent about issues. That is true.

But when I see how Russia has such a tough time in football/soccer, there seemingly dominance in chess doesn't seem that great anymore.

<Better said: You are missing the whole point !> How can I miss a point I'm making myself?

<Do you perhaps happen to know Hebrew> No

<You can only study the Torah in Hebrew> Then it gets kind of difficult to discuss these beliefs.

<It is impossible in an interpretation to another language as there are so many complications regarding the Hebrew words. So much is hidden and that's why we are studying what is written during very intensive discussions how to interpret only a simple verse every single day.> As far as I can see, then it is open to human interpretation wich are bound to change over time, and from person to person. If God wanted humans to live by his word, why couldn't he express himself clearer?

<"Genesis" in the beginning it is written *the first day*. It is wrong as it in Hebrew is written "yom echad" - *one day*. Then it continues with "yom sheni" - *second day*.> This seems like minor detail: one day, second day; first day, second day. I guess the Torah then says "third day" and then continue counting the days.

One of my main points is that the same source jews use to justify their claim on what we call Israel, also describe how they where ordered to commit brutal acts against their neighbours, and to rob them of their land. You attack Christianity and Islam for such brutality, while it is my impression that the <jewish> history of Israel also tells of such acts.

<Why is it so difficult to recognize that Spassky has done a terrible thing by signing this petition.> From the previous discussions it seems unclear what the facts and circumstances for this case are. Lets wait and see.

<Do you take anti-Semitism so easily ?> No. But what do you mean with this expression? To you mean discrimination against the so-called (see above) jewish ethnicity, the cultur, the religion or the nationality?

<Do you ignore racism in general as it's none of your concern ?> Why to you assume it is none of my concern?
I get upset when non-ethnic Norwegian friends gets discriminated. I also got very upset when the Holocaust was marked here in Norway, and the Gypsies where left out. They where only invited after the Norwegian government interfered.

<Is it not obvious for you that todays anti-Semitism in Europe is caused by such a bad conscience that it's not possible to handle in another way than again blame us Jews. This is a psychological dilemma for Europe, who still is suffering from the Nazism, who destroyed the soul of the Europeans for decades. We are facing this trauma now in this very moment.> No, it is not obvious for me. I will take responsibilty for my own actions only, and if there is a God, I think he will see it the same way. If I'm privileged because of unfair actions my father has taken, I will also feel obliged to make up for those actions. This is why I feel Europe has a great responsibility for i.e. African suffering.

When it comes to evil and cruelty, there are a lot of incidents that are as bad as the Holocaust. I have mentioned imperialistic Europe, and Red Khmer is another example. From the more recent time we have the Tutsie massacre: <800 000> Tutsies where killed by the Hutus in <100 days>, while the world did nothing. It would have taken them <two years> to reach the numbers the Nazis was responsible for. I am sure this massacre will long been forgotten after we continue to discuss the Holocaust, because the latter is "promoted" in a better way. This is what Norman G. Finkelstein (himself a jew and the son of holocaust survivors) calls the Holocaust Industry: http://www.theedge.abelgratis.co.uk...

I am not sure how and when my critics of religion converted into a discussion on anti-semitism and racism, but it often does: I guess the answer is in the previous posts.

this is completely wrong. you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

the term "jew" is about religion only. The cultural aspect lies in the different religion and traditions as a result. the term "jew" has nothing to do with nationality. Jews like Christians for example had often very strong feelings towards their countries and bravely fought for them during wars.

The term "jew" got abused to create the impression jews were on the outside of society and not part of it.

You may confuse "jew" with "israeli"....

<When it comes to evil and cruelty, there are a lot of incidents that are as bad as the Holocaust>

Comparing cruelties to each other shows a lack of understanding (or a lack of will). The Holocaust doesn't become less horrible just because of other cruelties.

<It would have taken them <two years> to reach the numbers the Nazis was responsible for.>

If I write a long posting, which I normally do, and sometimes I would like to be shorter, but that's my weakness. I have difficulties in being short.

Though in this case, it's exactly the opposite. Your lack of making a point asked for a long answer in order to clarify, which isn't so easy in itself. Perhaps we don't understand each other regarding the word "making a point". You were not able to be convincing in your arguing, and then it can't be making a point as I understand it. English is also not my mothertongue, so I might be wrong regarding the expression itself.

Torah means teaching and the whole point is to keep us studying as it is like a guide. It is neverending growing, but this needs time and space to explain.

*Yom echad* is not a minor detail.

Why start with "one day" and then continue with the second, third, fourth and so on. The Torah wants to teach us something here, but we are not sure what. It's definitely not up to you to tell what is important or not regarding texts that you haven't studied. You cannot go to a well-experienced teacher in chess and say what is important or not, if you don't have devoted considerable time to study it deeply.

During the history of mankind more or less all nations are conquered by military force. The whole Arab world is the result of conquering, for instance. The Arabs came to what today is the modern state of Israel during the 8th or 9th century after Islam was founded. The Arabs came also very late to Northern Africa. All is conquered area. You reveal so much of your opinion, when you say:

"claim on what we call Israel"

Israel is a fact and we have our roots there. Israel existed as a state long before any European country.

As <Karpova> I cannot understand how you can compare the massive massacres by Christianity and Islam with the Jewish conquest of Canaan. We have special rules for how to treat prisoners of war already during this time. There was no intention by forcing people to become Jewish.

Christianity have murdered millions of Jews for various reasons during the history.

Try to respect our terminology that I told you about yesterday as the so called *OT* just is created to legalizing Christianity. It is based on our Torah and it's not too much asked to respect this fact. In order to answer your question regarding the Torah, G-D gave the land what today is the Modern State of Israel, but we had to conquer it. In wars are people killed, but it can't be talked about massacres as the Jewish people had enough difficulties to manage.

I keep telling the Gypsies I know that they must have their days of mourning and keeping the memory alive what happened to them. The same with Africa ! The burden of Europe's guilt is tremendous heavy ! I have been fighting for a friend from Tchad to get his papers in France. Tchad is an ex-colony of France. A terrible story.
We have also the terrible genocide in Congo about hundred years ago, when 10.000 million Africans had to pay with their lives and it's a shame that it's almost unknown !

See here what Spassky has caused ! We are not discussing his chess, but his anti-Semitic views. There is no need to wait and see. Spassky signed an anti-Semitic petition !

Anti-Semitism include everything what is done against the Jewish people. Why are you trying to twist the words that we for long time have agreed on.

And the Merriam-Webster: "1 a : a member of the tribe of Judah b : ISRAELITE 2 : a member of a nation existing in Palestine from the 6th century B.C. to the 1st century A.D. 3 : a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of the ancient Jewish people 4 : one whose religion is Judaism"

I encourage you to look into other encyclopedias too, they might also disagree with you.

<You may confuse "jew" with "israeli"....> You may confuse "jew" with "judaist".

<Comparing cruelties to each other shows a lack of understanding (or a lack of will).> I might compare them, but I try not to rank them. A killing of a human being is primary a tradegy for THAT human. A genocide is a tradegy for the human race.

<The Holocaust doesn't become less horrible just because of other cruelties.> Who have claimed that? Certainly not me.

<Seems like the massacre in Ruanda didn't really touch you if you abuse it for your strange argumentation and come up with such calculations.> I'm not the one frequently arguing with the number "6 million victims" as a proof of the size of the tradegy. I just wanted to put this number into perspective.

It seems we agree on major points, like how humans <should> behave (I know this also from your past posts).

I will let you have your God, and you will let me have my uncertainty of the metaphysical.

'Like Fischer, Spassky was a second child, brought up in a family with an absent father. In the brief autobiography the world champion contributed to Jan van Reek's Grand Strategy, he describes his mother, Ekaterina, as coming from peasant stock, illegitimate and nutured by her godfather. She was a poorly educated, deeply religious woman, though when in a good mood, says Spassky, she would sing a post-civil war song with 'an optimistic tune. I preferred her Russian songs.' Spassky records how, in despair over sustaining her family, she sought support from the famous saintly monk, Seraphim of Viriza. 'The old man looked at my mother and said, "Be calm. Very soon everything will be alright."' His father Vasili, was a builder by trade, beginning work as a labourer on a construction site but earning promotion, first to the equivalent of foreman and then to supervisor. He was from a family of priests - a source of pride for Spassky. His grandfather, a priest, had been elected from the Kursk region to the 4th Duma in 1916. Nicholas II personally presented him with a golden cross. Spassky has been widely described as half-Jewish. He told the present authors that there was no truth in this; he was mystified as how it came to be reported.

- François-Marie Arouet (aka Voltaire)

"Making one's point" means obviosly having had the possibility to express one's opinion.

Anyone can answer, if this is a correct interpretation.

That's why I also suffer with my African friend from Tchad. I will never be able to understand this hatred and lack of empathy.

I know it's disturbing for many of you, but this hatred toward the ethnic group, where I belong makes me sick, and that's why I had to ventilate my despair on the site of Spassky. I am living in France and I will try to get in touch with him and personally hear from himself what he thinks.