< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 14 OF 14 ·
|Mar-05-18|| ||zanzibar: I'm pretty sure that the bio above is wrong in stating that Réti was encouraged as a young boy to take up chess by H. Gottschall.|
This is an easy mistake to make, assuming it was a mistake, because no less an authority than Edward Winter conveys this information:
<One day in the midst of this summer tranquillity a letter arrived addressed to Richard from Über Land und Meer, a then popular illustrated weekly in nineteenth-century style, to which we subscribed and in which a man named Gottschall ran a little chess column. Rather puzzled by the correspondence between the magazine and the 12-year-old boy, we learned that non-talkative Richard – of course in utmost secrecy – had submitted a chess problem to Mr Gottschall. Here was the answer:
“Your problem is gratefully accepted and will be published in one of our next columns. And I wish to add that if it is really true that you are only 12 years of age, as you wrote, and nobody helped you with the problem, let me congratulate you wholeheartedly. This is quite an exceptional achievement, which should encourage you to continue your work in chess with all seriousness. Personal greetings, Gottschall.”
Such praise from an acknowledged expert impressed Father and Mother very much, but their natural parental pride was somewhat overshadowed by a feeling that their two sons, each of whom spent most of his time at the keyboard or chessboard respectively, might perhaps be lured into careers of an uncertain future.>
If I might level a criticism of the master - Winter entirely omits any refs for all the facts in his piece on the Réti brothers. He doesn't even list his sources at the end of the article, making his work less reliable for checking than Soltis.
That aside - he's the point. The writer for the <Über Land und Meer> is almost certainly E. Schallopp and *not* H. v. Gottschall.
Unfortunately, I wanted to find the original problem submitted by Réti, but was unable to find that volume online.
A ref to Réti's problem, as well as a viewable take on it, is available from here:
where, once again, Gottschall is credited as columnist (1903/04).
Not being able to find the right volume, I can't say definitely it wasn't Gottschall. But I want to see the original article. And until I do, I have examples of <Über Land und Meer> before/after - with E. Schallopp as credited author:
I can get v90 (1903), it's the same (so I think the Réti problem is from 1904(?)).
I believe the mistake (if indeed there was one) can be partially credited to the difficulty of reading Gothic font. And once made, being just copied from source to source.
More investigation is needed, and the original article scan should be made public.
|Mar-05-18|| ||zanzibar: <Réti – Murderous robber?! Ce n’est pas possible!>|
|Mar-05-18|| ||zanzibar: The Gottschall/Schallopp dilemma is solved...
Am I too hard on Winter? Given his demand for rigor from others, I think not, at least, presently.
|Mar-07-18|| ||Retireborn: <z> Impressive research work on your part.|
Re: the "quienes" link, I did see some interesting tidbits; that Reti spoke no Hungarian, and that Tarrasch tried to get him relegated to the B-tournament at Gothenburg 1920, for example.
Still, what interested me most was the pictures of his wife Rogneda. I have seen her described (by Golombek? Chernev? not sure) as "a great Russian beauty"; it's nice to see that this was not mere politesse.
|Mar-07-18|| ||zanzibar: Thanks <RB>, I thought it interesting to consult the original source and give the proper credit.|
It's also interesting to think about how the story came to be propagated.
* * * * *
A little more about Rogneda can be found here (scroll down)
|Mar-07-18|| ||zanzibar: And also here:
|Mar-08-18|| ||Retireborn: <z> Thanks for those links. So Rogneda returned to Russia, married again, had a daughter, and was still alive in the Kruschev era. This Biryukov chap sounds like a bit of a bar steward!|
|Mar-08-18|| ||zanzibar: "Bar steward" is a bit of an unknown term round these parts, at least figuratively.|
Does it mean about the same as "cad"?
|Mar-08-18|| ||ughaibu: Remove the "rew", what's left?|
|Mar-08-18|| ||zanzibar: Ah, got it, thx.|
|Mar-08-18|| ||zanzibar: http://canadianbartenders.com/how-t...|
|Mar-09-18|| ||Retireborn: Child of unmarried parents, as the more elegant Wodehousian phrase has it!|
|Apr-18-18|| ||ketchuplover: The world chess hall of fame is now Reti to rumble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!|
|Jun-12-18|| ||zanzibar: RE: Reti's play in <Stockholm (1919) - Quad>|
<Réti of whom the Dutch are better result would have expected, played
in this quadcopter very nervous and made because of that numerous
blunders. For example, he often put pieces in that a regular onlooker
there the kindness made up "Réti gives his opponents Christmas
gifts". Nevertheless, his was playing power still sufficient to him
about keeping pace with Bogoljubow and Rubinstein. He played in the
ninth round a very instructive party against Spielmann generally as
the best position party of it tournaments is considered.>
27-12-1919 Het Vaderland : staat- en letterkundig nieuwsblad - p9
Akiba Rubinstein (kibitz #1275)
|Jun-12-18|| ||Retireborn: <z> Quadcopter is a marvellous word!|
The only Reti game from Stockholm that made it into Golombek's book was this one:-
Reti vs Spielmann, 1919
Although I think that's not the one from the quadcopter referred to, but rather from the Schultz memorial in November.
|Jun-13-18|| ||zanzibar: <RB> Here's looking at you kid!|
|Jun-13-18|| ||Retireborn: <z> Eye in the sky!|
BTW I have some round dates of the quadcopter from another Gillam booklet, if you still want them. Looks like he's guessing about the date of rd 7 though.
|Jun-13-18|| ||zanzibar: <BTW I have some round dates of the quadcopter from another Gillam booklet>|
Oh, goodness <RB> you do?!
If you would please be so kind as to look over my version and note any differences, I would be most appreciative.
1919.12.01: 2 Mon R-1
1919.12.02: 2 Tue R-2
1919.12.03: 2 Wed R-3
1919.12.05: 2 Fri R-4
1919.12.06: 2 Sat R-5
1919.12.08: 2 Mon R-6
1919.12.10: 2 Wed R-7
1919.12.11: 2 Thu R-8
1919.12.12: 2 Fri R-9
1919.12.15: 2 Mon R-10
1919.12.16: 2 Tue R-11
1919.12.17: 2 Wed R-12
Note that I framed the match as no-play on Sundays, and one rest/adj game for each cycle.
Also, if Gillam provided any info about the tournament (eg. where it was held, who sponsored it, playing session times, time controls, etc.), I would love to know about it, as I've had no luck finding almost anything in the literature other than the games themselves.
Many thanks in advance.
|Jun-13-18|| ||Retireborn: <z> Gillam doesn't have any real info about the tournament - he calls it "little publicised", and it seems his sources (Tidskrift and an obscure Spanish booklet from 1973) don't have much apart from the games. I'm hoping to acquire a booklet fot the Schultz memorial - likely the organizers of that were also the organizers of this.|
Anyway he gives:-
Round 1, Monday Dec 1st
Round 2, Wednes Dec 3rd
Round 3, Friday Dec 5th
Round 4, Saturd Dec 6th
Round 5, Sunday Dec 7th
Round 6, Monday Dec 8th
Round 7, Tuesd Dec 9th ("likely" Gillam who thinks that Dec 10th was a free day, because half way through)
Round 8, Thursd Dec 11th
Round 9, Friday Dec 12th
Round 10, Saturd Dec 13th
Round 11, Monday Dec 15th
Round 12, Wednes Dec 17th
So you can see it's a little different from yours - not a particularly consistent schedule.
|Jun-14-18|| ||zanzibar: <RB> thank you very much for that, though it seems Gillam is in the same shape as I am - the sources are rather thin.|
I doubt the 1973 Spanish booklet is authoritative - so the main source is TDS. But afaik it didn't have any of the game dates in it, making me wonder how Gillam came up with his schedule, or how I missed it?
|Jun-14-18|| ||Retireborn: <z> I was wondering about that myself. It's possible that he got the dates from the Spanish booklet (which was part of a series about Rubinstein, he says) or perhaps from some other Rubinstein book such as the Donaldson/Minev one.|
The TfS source he quotes is 1920 pp 4-32.
|Jun-14-18|| ||zanzibar: <RB> the specifics of the ref is helpful; I'll have a second look then.|
|Jun-15-18|| ||sneaky pete: That Spanish booklet (Ricardo Alvarez Cela y Luis Eceizabarrena Gaba, Estocolmo 1919 y Rubinstein-Bogoljubow, 1920, published by Ricardo Aguilera, Madrid, 1973, as part of the Serie Rubinstein of the Torneos Retrospectivos) has no dates or anything else worth menrioning, only the games in that horrible Spanish descriptive notation.|
|Jun-15-18|| ||Retireborn: <sneaky pete> Heh. I'd love to see just how big your library is!|
If the dates aren't in TfS then I can only suppose Gillam has got hold of a local bulletin or schedule.
|Jun-15-18|| ||zanzibar: OK, I doublechecked <TfS_1920_0103 p4-32>, and there definitely is only the bracket dates + round numbers given. |
That means we don't know how Gillam arrived at his schedule. I suspect he would have cited Swedish newspaper accounts if he had access to such. Or other newspaper accounts, for that matter.
My working theory is that my schedule is the most consistent, at least at the moment(*).
(*) Do we have any Nordic historians who might search their country's newspaper archives?
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