chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Hikaru Nakamura
Nakamura 
 

Number of games in database: 3,908
Years covered: 1995 to 2025
Last FIDE rating: 2804 (2734 rapid, 2837 blitz)
Highest rating achieved in database: 2816
Overall record: +593 -246 =721 (61.1%)*
   * Overall winning percentage = (wins+draws/2) / total games in the database. 2348 exhibition games, blitz/rapid, odds games, etc. are excluded from this statistic.

MOST PLAYED OPENINGS
With the White pieces:
 Sicilian (271) 
    B90 B30 B23 B51 B42
 Ruy Lopez (172) 
    C65 C67 C78 C77 C84
 Reti System (147) 
    A06 A04 A05
 Queen's Gambit Declined (119) 
    D37 D31 D38 D30 D35
 Queen's Pawn Game (115) 
    A45 D00 D02 E10 E00
 Grunfeld (77) 
    D85 D70 D78 D91 D80
With the Black pieces:
 Sicilian (251) 
    B90 B30 B80 B22 B92
 Ruy Lopez (247) 
    C67 C65 C70 C78 C72
 Queen's Gambit Declined (155) 
    D37 D31 D30 D39 D06
 Queen's Pawn Game (123) 
    D02 A40 A45 A41 A46
 King's Indian (114) 
    E97 E90 E92 E63 E94
 Giuoco Piano (107) 
    C53 C50 C54
Repertoire Explorer

NOTABLE GAMES: [what is this?]
   Krasenkow vs Nakamura, 2007 0-1
   Gelfand vs Nakamura, 2010 0-1
   Rybka vs Nakamura, 2008 0-1
   So vs Nakamura, 2015 0-1
   G Sagalchik vs Nakamura, 2003 0-1
   Crafty vs Nakamura, 2007 0-1
   Nakamura vs Karjakin, 2004 1-0
   Nakamura vs Kramnik, 2012 1-0
   A Beliavsky vs Nakamura, 2009 0-1
   Nakamura vs J W Loyte, 2001 1-0

WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS: [what is this?]
   FIDE World Championship Knockout Tournament (2004)

NOTABLE TOURNAMENTS: [what is this?]
   Corsica Masters (2007)
   Trophee CCAS (2008)
   Bullet Chess Championship (2023)
   Magnus Carlsen Invitational (2020)
   Meltwater Tour Final (2021)
   Ordix Open (2009)
   Chess.com Speed Chess Championship 2017/18 (2017)
   chess.com Speed Chess (2020)
   Chess.com SpeedChess Finals (2024)
   Tata Steel India (2022)
   Champions Showdown (2019)
   New In Chess Classic (2021)
   Magnus Carlsen Chess Tour Finals (2020)
   Pro Chess League (2018)
   PRO League Group Stage (2019)

GAME COLLECTIONS: [what is this?]
   Naka's Nook Mistook Fredthebear stan theo by fredthebear
   0ZeR0's collected games volume 212 by 0ZeR0
   0ZeR0's collected games volume 243 by 0ZeR0
   Notable Nakamura Games by caracas1970
   book: Fighting Chess with Hikaru Nakamura by Baby Hawk
   Fighting Chess with Hikaru Nakamura by kenilworthian
   Vid e o put Fredthebear in th is cent ury by fredthebear
   Notable Nakamura Games by iron maiden
   2020 The Corona Beer & Black Bears Matter Mo Ode by fredthebear
   Hikaru! by larrewl
   Match Nakamura! by docjan
   Match Nakamura! by amadeus

RECENT GAMES:
   🏆 Norway Chess
   Nakamura vs Wei Yi (May-29-25) 1/2-1/2
   Nakamura vs Wei Yi (May-29-25) 1/2-1/2, armageddon
   D Gukesh vs Nakamura (May-28-25) 1-0
   Nakamura vs Carlsen (May-27-25) 1-0, armageddon
   Nakamura vs Carlsen (May-27-25) 1/2-1/2

Search Sacrifice Explorer for Hikaru Nakamura
Search Google for Hikaru Nakamura
FIDE player card for Hikaru Nakamura

HIKARU NAKAMURA
(born Dec-09-1987, 37 years old) Japan (federation/nationality United States of America)

[what is this?]

IM (2001); GM (2003). Hikaru Nakamura won the US Championship in 2004, 2009, 2012, 2015 and 2019. He was the world's second-ranked player as of October 2015. In July 2023, he married WGM Atousa Pourkashiyan.

Prodigy

Christopher Hikaru Nakamura was born December 9, 1987 in Hirakata in Osaka, Japan, to a Japanese father and an American mother. He is the younger brother of Asuka Nakamura. When he was two years old, he and his mother and brother moved to the United States. He started playing chess when he was seven, coached by his stepfather, Sunil Weeramantry. He was the youngest player in US history to defeat an International Master (Jay Bonin) in a USCF-rated game (10 years, 0 months), to become a National Master (USCF) (10 years, 79 days), to defeat a Grandmaster (Arthur Bisguier) in a USCF-rated game (10 years, 117 days), and to become an IM (13 years, 2 months), although most of these records have subsequently been surpassed. In 2003 he became the USA's youngest-ever grandmaster (15 years, 2 months and 19 days), a record later broken by Fabiano Caruana and Ray Robson.

Championships

<Youth> In 2001 he won the World U14 championship.

<National> When he won the Chessmaster US Championship 2005 (2004) (on tiebreak from Alexander Stripunsky), he was the youngest player to win the US championship since Robert James Fischer. He also won the US Championship (2009) outright by half a point ahead of the joint runners-up Robert Hess and Alexander Onischuk, and the United States Championship (2012) outright by a full point ahead of the winner of the 2010 and 2011 events, Gata Kamsky. He won the national title for a fourth time when he took out the US Championship (2015) with 8/11, half a point ahead of the outright runner up Ray Robson.

<World championship cycle> Seeded number 87 and aged 16, Nakamura reached the final 16 in the FIDE World Championship Knockout Tournament (2004), defeating 46th seed Sergey Volkov, 19th seeded Aleksej Aleksandrov, and 51st seed Alexander Lastin in the preliminary rounds before bowing out to number 3 seed and finalist Michael Adams in the round of 16. He qualified to play in the World Cup (2013) through his rating, and defeated Peruvian WGM Deysi Estela Cori Tello in the first round, Azeri GM Eltaj Safarli in the second round and Indian GM Baskaran Adhiban in the third round, but was eliminated in the Round of 16 (fourth round) by Ukrainian GM Anton Korobov. He qualified by rating to participate in the World Cup (2015), and is doing so although he has already qualified for the Candidates Tournament of 2016 via the Grand Prix series of 2014-15. He defeated Richmond Phiri, Sam Shankland in the first two rounds, as well as Ian Nepomniachtchi in a third round thriller that Nakamura won in the deciding Armageddon blitz tiebreaker game after the three previous sets of rapid and blitz tiebreakers had been drawn. In the Round of 16 (the fourth round) he won against Michael Adams by 1.5-0.5 but lost to Pavel Eljanov in the quarter final, bowing out of the event.

<Grand Prix Series 2012-2013> He started the Grand Prix series with last at the FIDE Grand Prix London (2012). After bouncing back into contention with outright second in the FIDE Grand Prix Zug (2013), a poor showing at the FIDE Grand Prix Thessaloniki (2013) eliminated him from contention for the top 2 spots that would have qualified him for the 2014 Candidates Tournament. (1) He did however place 3rd behind Fabiano Caruana and Boris Gelfand in the FIDE Grand Prix Paris (2013) to accumulate 300 GP points and place 6th in the 2012-13 Grand Prix series. Subsequently, his only chance to play in the 2014 Candidates Tournament was to be nominated as the Organizer's wild card once the venue was settled, however this did not eventuate.

<Grand Prix Series 2014-2015> Nakamura competed in the first leg of the series at the FIDE Grand Prix Baku (2014), where he scored 6/11 to place 3rd-7th, half a point behind the joint leaders Caruana and Gelfand. He therefore kicked off with a GP tally of 82 points, representing the even distribution of points applicable to each place from 3rd to 7th. In the second leg of the series, namely the FIDE Grand Prix Tashkent (2014), he placed =2nd and stood in 2nd place overall, excellently situated to take advantage of the opportunity to qualify for the Candidates tournament in 2016. He took full advantage of this in FIDE Grand Prix Khanty-Mansiysk (2015), when he came =1st to qualify for the Candidates Tournament of 2016.

Standard tournaments

In 2005, he won the 7th Foxwoods Open (2005).

In 2007, he won both the National Open (2007) that was held in Las Vegas and the Casino de Barcelona (2007).

The following year, he beat Xiangzhi Bu in the play-off to win the Gibraltar Masters (2008) Masters Open with 8.0/10.

Nakamura tied for first with Evgeny Najer at the 37th World Open (2009) after taking two last-day byes, each worth half a point and won the Donostia Chess Festival (2009) in tiebreak over Ruslan Ponomariov.

In 2010, he came =4th at Corus Group A (2010), and was equal top scorer in the victorious Rising Stars team in the Rising Stars - Experience (2010) tournament. He scored 5/9 (+1 -0 =8) at the Tal Memorial (2010), placing =4th, and finished the year with =4th place in the London Chess Classic (2010).

Nakamura began 2011 by taking clear first place at the A-Group of the prestigious category 20 Tata Steel Group A (2011) (formerly Corus) with a 9/13 score (+6 -1 =6) and a 2880 performance rating, ahead of a powerful field including the world's top four players: World Champion Viswanathan Anand, Magnus Carlsen, Levon Aronian and former World Champion Vladimir Kramnik. In June 2011, Nakamura placed =3rd in the Bazna King's Tournament (2011), in July he scored 4.5/10 at Dortmund Sparkassen (2011), in August he came =1st in the 2011 US Open Championship with 7.5/9 and in October he came =3rd in the Grand Slam Chess Final (2011) with 5/10. The following month, he suffered a lapse in form at the category 22 Tal Memorial (2011), scoring 3/9 and coming last but recovered to finish 2011 with second place behind Kramnik at the category 20 London Chess Classic (2011), scoring +4 -1 =3 (TPR of 2887).

He started 2012 by coming =2nd (4th on count back) at the Reggio Emilia (2011), half a point behind Anish Giri, and then came =5th at Tata Steel Group A (2012), scoring 7.5/13 (+3 -1 =9). He followed up in April 2012 with 1st at the 6th Annual Grand Pacific Open held in British Columbia. He competed in the Tal Memorial (2012) held in June, scoring 4/9. In July/August 2012, Nakamura placed a solid =3rd at the Biel Chess Festival (2012), but underperformed at the European Club Cup (2012), although in October 2012, he recovered to some extent by winning the 4 player double round robin 16th Unive Tournament (2012) (crown group) with 4.5/6 (+3 -0 =3). Nakamura finished 2012 with a strong 3rd placement in the London Chess Classic (2012) behind Carlsen and Kramnik, adding enough rating points to restore him to the top 10.

2013 started with a modest 7/13 result for outright 6th at the Tata Steel Group A (2013) event. He then followed up in May 2013 with equal 2nd at the Norway Chess (2013) with 5.5/9, half a point behind Sergey Karjakin and 3rd on tiebreak behind Carlsen; he also placed =2nd with 6/9 at the preliminary Norway Chess (Blitz) (2013) held to determine the draw for the main tournament, and earned the right to play with the White pieces in 5 games out of 9. In June 2013, he contested the category 22 Tal Memorial (2013), and was outright leader after 6 rounds. However, he lost the last 3 game to place 6th with 4.5/9, winning more games (4) and losing more games (4) than any other player in the tournament. Soon after, he came =3rd in the Houston Open in July 2013. In September he played in the quadrangular double round robin category 22 Sinquefield Cup (2013), and was in contention for first place until the last round, when he drew against Gata Kamsky finishing second with 3.5/6 (+2 -1 =3; TPR 2863) behind Magnus Carlsen.

Nakamura's first event in 2014 was the category 20 Tata Steel Masters (2014) where he scored 5/11 (+2 -3 =6) to shed a few rating points for FIDE's February rating list. He next competed in the category 23 Zurich Chess Challenge (2014) in which he placed 4th with 2/5 after coming agonisingly close to defeating World Champion Magnus Carlsen. He came 2nd with 3.5/5 in the Zurich Chess Challenge (Rapid) (2014) which followed the standard time event, to remain in 4th in the overall event with the results of the standard and rapid events combined. In April, he participated in the inaugural Gashimov Memorial (2014), a category XXII 6-player DRR event inaugurated in honor of the late Azeri grandmaster, scoring 5/10 and placing =3rd behind Carlsen and Caruana. At the London Chess Classic (2014), he scored 2.5/5 to place 4th.

Nakamura's start to 2015 was to win the powerful Gibraltar Masters (2015) with 8.5/10 (+7 =3), and return a PB on his live rating and his new FIDE rating due in March. Despite cracking the 2800 barrier in the live ratings during the RR category 22 Zurich Chess Challenge (2015) held in February, he placed outright 2nd in the standard portion of the event behind Anand, ahead of Kramnik, Karjakin, Aronian and Caruana respectively. His second place in the Zurich Chess Challenge (Rapid) (2015) with 3/5 made him =1st with Anand in the overall event, but he won an Armageddon tiebreaker with the former World Champion to win first prize. His good form continued at the category 22 Norway Chess (2015) event, where he was undefeated to place =2nd (3rd on a narrow SB tiebreak), behind Topalov and alongside Anand with 6/9 and a TPR of 2900. In September he competed in the second leg of the inaugural Grand Chess Tour at Sinquefield Cup (2015), and finished equal second with 5/9 behind Aronian in what amounted to a par for rating performance. October saw Nakamura compete in the lucrative Millionaire Chess (2015) tournament, which he won after battling through a complicated tiebreak system that involved a playoff to decide a playoff for fourth, and then winning a knockout rapid game semi-final that was called after round 7 of 9 of the main standard time event. He finished the year with a poor performance at the London Chess Classic (2015) where he came in toward the bottom of the field after scoring 4/9.

He started 2016 with an upbeat result at the Gibraltar Masters (2016), winning first prize after a rapid and blitz game tiebreak that ended in an Armageddon victory against runner-up Maxime Vachier-Lagrave. He finished clear second at the
FIDE Grand Swiss (2023), scoring 8/11 (+5 =6 -0) and qualifying for the 2024 Candidates tournament.

Team Events

<Olympiads> Nakamura has represented the U.S. in the Olympiads of 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012 and 2014, helping his country to the bronze medal in 2006 and 2008. He scored 6/10 during the Khanty-Mansiysk Olympiad (2010) on top board for the USA and a performance rating of 2741 and 6/9 in the Istanbul Olympiad (2012), coming in fourth on top board. His overall score in Olympiads is 31 points accumulated in 49 games played.

<World Team Championship> Nakamura played board 1 for the USA at the World Team Championship (2010), scoring individual gold and team silver. He also played top board at the World Team Championship (2013), winning individual silver and helping his team to 4th place in the event.

<European Club Cup> He played top board for the SK Husek Vienna in the European Club Cup (2009) and top board for the Italian club Obiettivo Risarcimento Padova in 2012 and 2013, second board for the Italian club in 2014 and board 3 for the same club in 2015. He scored individual bronze in 2013 and 2014.

Rapids

Nakamura is one of the world's best rapid and blitz players, and the world's best bullet (one-minute) player. He regularly plays on the internet, usually at the ICC where he is the highest rated player (userid <Smallville>), and at Playchess, where he is known as <Star Wars>. He has set many rating records under different categories. In 2008, he challenged and broke blitz king Alexander Grischuk 's record at ICC of 3737, reaching 3750. Grischuk subsequently challenged Nakamura to a 20 game 3 minutes blitz match, which Nakamura took out convincingly by 14.5-5.5. (2) He also won the first ICC Open in 2011 ahead of over 2000 other contestants. (3)

In 2007, he won the annual Corsica Masters (2007), defeating Rustam Kasimdzhanov in the final. One of the most convincing demonstrations of Nakamura's ability as a rapid player was when he won the Trophee CCAS (2008), defeating Xiangzhi Bu, Anatoly Karpov and Vasyl Ivanchuk in the playoff matches to take first prize in a field that included Carlsen. Nakamura also defeated Carlsen to take out the BNbank Blitz (2009). He was runner-up to Ivanchuk at the Cap d'Agde (2010) in the playoff. He also defeated Rising Stars team mate Anish Giri for the right to play at Amber 2011.

In 2012, Nakamura won the trifecta of silver medals at the SportAccord World Mind Games (Men's Rapid) (2012), the World Mind Games (Men's Blitz) and the World Mind Games (Men's Blindfold) events. He closed out 2013 by winning the London Chess Classic (Knockout) (2013), defeating Gelfand in the final by 1.5-0.5, after qualifying for the final by winning the preliminary London Chess Classic (Group C) (2013).

In June 2014, he competed in both the World Rapid Championship (2014) and the World Blitz Championship (2014) that were held in Dubai. In the former, he scored a relatively meager 8.5/15, losing 40 rapid rating points, while he was much more successful in the latter, scoring 16/21, being the runner up by a point behind the winner Magnus Carlsen. His blitz rating skyrocketed to over 2900. Subsequently he competed in the Super Rapidplay Open that was a companion event to the 2014 London Classic (see above), winning the event with an almost perfect score of 9.5/10. He also competed in the London Elite Player Blitz that was the other companion event, and placed =1st with 6/10.

The 2016 edition of the Zurich Chess Challenge was a two-part event, which kicked off with a preliminary Zurich Chess Challenge (Opening Blitz) (2016) to determine who had three whites in the five rounds of the Zurich Chess Challenge (2016) (rapid). Nakamura placed first in the Opening Blitz earning the use of the white pieces in three of the five rounds of the first section of the actual tournament, the round robin rapid event where he placed equal first alongside Anand. Nakamura playing the black pieces three times in the second section of the event, the Zurich Chess Challenge (Blitz) (2016), again placed equal first with Anand to tie the overall score, but won on tiebreak to take first prize.

He has authored the book Bullet Chess: One Minute to Mate.

Matches

In December 2004, Nakamura played the best-of-six game Karjakin - Nakamura Match (2004) in the "Duelo de los Jovenes Prodigios" (Duel of the Wonder Boys) in Cuernavaca, Estado de Morelos, Mexico, winning 4.5-1.5 (+4 -1 =1). In May 2011 at the St Louis chess club, he won the Nakamura - Ponomariov Match (2011) by 3.5-2.5 (+2 =3 -1). In June 2014, he played for the Cez Trophy Navara - Nakamura Match (2014) in Praha, Czechia, which involved a 4-game standard time match against David Navara. He won the match by 3.5-0.5.

960 Chess

In August 2009, Nakamura defeated Aronian in Mainz, Germany to become the 960 world champion and remained unchallenged as such until Carlsen defeated him in a match in February 2018 by a margin of 14-10.

Ratings and rankings

Nakamura's highest ranking as a Junior (U20) was #3 in April 2004 and 2005. He first broke into the world's top 100 in October 2004 when he was still 16 years old, and has remained in the top 100 continuously since that time. He reached the world's top 10 in January 2011, and has remained in that elite group continuously since January 2013. In September 2015 his rating reached 2814 despite which he was still ranked world #4 behind Carlsen, Anand and Topalov respectively. However in October 2016, his ranking reached its highest point so far, 2816, when his ranking was world #2, his highest ranking so far.

Sources and references

(1) Wikipedia article: FIDE Grand Prix 2012–2013 (2) http://dod.ru/chess/game/Crest/Smal...; (3) Further details are at this post: Hikaru Nakamura; (4) https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast... (podcast interview by Ben Johnson through iTunes); Live rating list: http://www.2700chess.com/; Wikipedia article: Hikaru Nakamura

Last updated: 2024-04-14 20:46:42

Try our new games table.

 page 1 of 157; games 1-25 of 3,908  PGN Download
Game  ResultMoves YearEvent/LocaleOpening
1. S Predescu vs Nakamura 1-0641995U.S. National Scholastic Grade 2 ChampionshipB08 Pirc, Classical
2. L Au vs Nakamura 1-0431997Hawaii opB83 Sicilian
3. Nakamura vs J Bonin 1-0361997Marshall Chess ClubC02 French, Advance
4. J Kleinman vs Nakamura  ½-½411997January CongressA49 King's Indian, Fianchetto without c4
5. Nakamura vs B Karen 0-1521997Nassau FuturityB06 Robatsch
6. A Bisguier vs Nakamura 0-1211998Somerset ACN Action SwissE70 King's Indian
7. B Karen vs Nakamura  0-1261998Nassau g/30B23 Sicilian, Closed
8. A Stripunsky vs Nakamura 0-1431998Marshall Chess ClubB40 Sicilian
9. P MacIntyre vs Nakamura  1-0541998US Amateur Team EastA07 King's Indian Attack
10. J Thinnsen vs Nakamura 1-035199899th US OpenA45 Queen's Pawn Game
11. Nakamura vs I Krush 1-062199899th US OpenB67 Sicilian, Richter-Rauzer Attack, 7...a6 Defense, 8...Bd7
12. S Kriventsov vs Nakamura  1-0241999Rated TournamentB80 Sicilian, Scheveningen
13. Nakamura vs J Fang 0-12119998th Eastern Class ChampionshipsB73 Sicilian, Dragon, Classical
14. A David vs Nakamura  1-025199927th World OpenB92 Sicilian, Najdorf, Opocensky Variation
15. Nakamura vs W Paschall  ½-½251999North Bay OpenB65 Sicilian, Richter-Rauzer Attack, 7...Be7 Defense, 9...Nxd4
16. J Hebert vs Nakamura  1-0601999North Bay OpenE97 King's Indian
17. Nakamura vs V Rajlich  1-0521999North Bay OpenB90 Sicilian, Najdorf
18. G Taylor vs Nakamura  1-0311999North Bay OpenE75 King's Indian, Averbakh, Main line
19. Nakamura vs F Baragar  0-1451999North Bay OpenC17 French, Winawer, Advance
20. M Stroud vs Nakamura  0-1371999North Bay OpenE92 King's Indian
21. S Glinert vs Nakamura  ½-½381999North Bay OpenA07 King's Indian Attack
22. D Moody vs Nakamura 0-1201999100th US OpenB21 Sicilian, 2.f4 and 2.d4
23. Nakamura vs A Aleksandrov ½-½601999100th US OpenC45 Scotch Game
24. A Wojtkiewicz vs Nakamura 1-0421999100th US OpenE62 King's Indian, Fianchetto
25. Nakamura vs G Gaiffe 1-0541999100th US OpenB23 Sicilian, Closed
 page 1 of 157; games 1-25 of 3,908  PGN Download
  REFINE SEARCH:   White wins (1-0) | Black wins (0-1) | Draws (1/2-1/2) | Nakamura wins | Nakamura loses  

Kibitzer's Corner
ARCHIVED POSTS
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 397 OF 858 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-03-10  s4life: <podjevsky: <Bobsterman3000> Most people? As you are expected to do better against lower rated ppl your tpr is supposed to be like your rating. >

Most people would - or are expected to - actually perform similarly regardless of the opponent's rating.. that's what having a rating means. Perhaps froggie can compute Naka Corus tpr for opposition under and above his current live rating? it should be about the same I think..

Feb-03-10  Rolfo: <moronovich: Just a guess : frog is the saint,Carlsen the wife and Kramnik the plumber !?> Don't think so, I was in fact courious about where she lived, her phone number etc.. Joe the plumber shouldn't have all the fun for himself:)
Feb-03-10  veigaman: <rolfo> :)
Feb-03-10  PinnedPiece: <youcanbeallyouwanttobe> Aren't you ignoring the strength of Naka's final 4 round opponents in your analysis?

.

Feb-03-10  frogbert: <<frog: so far he still gets better tprs against players that are <lower rated> than himself.>

and who doesn't?>

i should have said <much better> tprs in order to make my point clearer.

<Perhaps froggie can compute Naka Corus tpr for opposition under and above his current live rating?>

live rating, s4life? what about the opposition, then?

anyway, for the 8 players rated lower than his <live> rating (after these games), his tpr was 2827. for the 5 players above him, it was 2703.

probably it was wrong to anchor it to naka's own rating in the first place - the point really was elite opposition versus non-elite opposition.

bobsterman, players do <not> perform equally well against any kind of opposition. there are actually quite interesting differences between the elite players in this regard. among elite players with a track record of gaining most rating points against sub-2700 players, there are for instance morozevich, mamedyarov and jakovenko.

Feb-03-10  frogbert: <Most people would - or are expected to - actually perform similarly regardless of the opponent's rating.. that's what having a rating means.>

if anything, that's only in theory. in reality the rating says something about your results against the players you typically play - and less about those (or the kind of) players you seldom play.

the thoretical expectation seems to match pretty well for big groups/pools of players, but for individuals there are notable variations in where their "sweet spots" are.

Feb-03-10  Atking: Well Nakamura was probably shocked (As many strong players) by his lost vs Kramnik The former world champion played very well especially this game. Nakamura could feel then a bit tired in the second part. One should not forget he performed few days before Corus to put US team at the top of the team world championship in Turkey. When I said "looks at the game" to frogbert it was just to realize that - compare with the others top players - Nakamura wasn't especially lucky. Indeed his potential looks even up to his result. It is not like a player did a big mistake in one game. He got his due here, even more he could reasonnabily won his last 2 games Which put him shared second half point behind the leader. What do you want more? Should he won this tournament at his first attempt in the big league with 3 players around 2800? We are no more in Morphy or Capablanca history, Nakamura impressed very much at Corus. Must be blind to not see that.
Feb-03-10  theagenbiteofinwit: <in reality the rating says something about your results against the players you typically play - and less about those (or the kind of) players you seldom play.>

I wonder what Topalov's rating says since he seldom plays anybody.

Feb-04-10  jsy: <Most people would - or are expected to - actually perform similarly regardless of the opponent's rating.. that's what having a rating means.>

I'm confident this statement can be backed up totally by looking at the broad population of "all" games played. The statistically expected TPR is the player's rating.

(Obviously on an individual level, anything goes. For example, a player who is rapidly gaining strength is underrated and will play above rating for sometime. But this does not disprove the theory.)

Feb-04-10  s4life: <frogbert: <Most people would - or are expected to - actually perform similarly regardless of the opponent's rating.. that's what having a rating means.> if anything, that's only in theory. in reality the rating says something about your results against the players you typically play - and less about those (or the kind of) players you seldom play.>

Well, obviously models work as 'expected' only in theory and reasonably well when enough training data is available... probably. In reality a player is often either underrated or overrated. Still, if you are going to make a claim about how you'd perform against opponents with different ratings, 'about your current rating' is at least as good as any other answer.

Feb-04-10  frogbert: < if you are going to make a claim about how you'd perform against opponents with different ratings, 'about your current rating' is at least as good as any other answer.>

true, as long as you don't have better data available than your current rating.

the performance profiles i've made for the top players constitute exactly such "better data", since a single player's results aren't compacted into only one single number - instead performance is made a function of opposition's rating (the plotted data points are in fact a function of results within a certain rating range).

Feb-04-10  frogbert: <What do you want more? Should he won this tournament at his first attempt in the big league with 3 players around 2800?>

atking, are you asking me?!

i haven't questioned nakamura's corus result at all. to the contrary, i said it was an excellent debut and a very good result - and that he proved that 2700+ opposition isn't any notable problem for him anymore.

now, are you able to hold two thoughts in your head at the same time, atking?

in addition to that, one can make some simple/brief analysis of how nakamura scored his points. it seems like you're saying: "i don't want to know, i don't want to know!"

i find that attitude very strange - as odd as it comes. nakamura's results are what they are, independent of any calculations made by me or others.

Feb-04-10  frogbert: <I wonder what Topalov's rating says since he seldom plays anybody.>

i guess that follows from my general statement. :o) the more seldom he plays, the more uncertainty will pertain to his rating.

Feb-04-10  frogbert: <In reality a player is often either underrated or overrated. >

s4life, i'm not sure if i agree to that use of the terms "underrated" and "overrated". for instance, among the top 30-35 players, i would say that at least 15-20 players have a rating that describes their relative level as exactly as the rating system possibly can.

when the results of some player varies over time, but not more than to make his/her rating stay within 30-35 points of some chosen constant c, i tend to see that as an in herent limitation of the rating system (since it's purely based on results) more than anything else. since the same "chess strength" can result in different results simply due to various "random" factors, we can't really tell what the "correct rating" for some player is - except in the strictly formal sense that it is what should be as given by the formulas and results. so instead of reading too much from any random "rating snapshot", one needs to consider trends and tendencies over some period of time. (the official ratings and the live ratings aren't any different here - you simply have many more sampling points for the live ratings).

hence, concluding that some player is/was underrated/overrated can only be done

1) in retrospect, and

2) when there is a "notable change" in one direction or the other, not of the rating itself, but of the "constant" c that describes the middle point around which a rating naturally will fluctuate

if a player gains 20 points in one list and drops 25 points in the next, you don't really know (yet) if the c is within those max or min values, or outside either. and saying that the player first was underrated, and then was overrated, only serves to misguide people, imho.

Feb-04-10  Strongest Force: Does this site have a phone number i can call to use a debit card to renew my membership? I wrote them an email about the matter but have not heard from them. I am not giving any card info over any site, secure or otherwise.
Feb-04-10  KingG: <Stongest Force> Why don't you ask them on their chess forum chessgames.com chessforum ? They usually reply pretty quickly.
Feb-04-10  rogge: <Does this site have a phone number i can call to use a debit card to renew my membership?>

786-222-6650

Feb-04-10  amadeus: <Strongest Force>,

"You may also activate Chessgames.com premium services by calling 786-222-6650 or mailing your payment in US Dollars (check or money order) to:

Chessgames.com
P.O. Box 24006
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33307"

You can use paypal too. - Premium Membership Help Page

Feb-04-10  Strongest Force: Thx for the info guys. I will call during office hours.
Feb-04-10  timhortons: <i haven't questioned nakamura's corus result at all. to the contrary, i said it was an excellent debut and a very good result - and that he proved that 2700+ opposition isn't any notable problem for him anymore.>

good frog!

at least your not labeling him high in hype anymore, good only in bullet and good only in beating players lower rated tha him.

impressive! your attitude towards nakamura changing, im starting to like you:>

Feb-04-10  ycbaywtb: VERY GOOD PinnedPiece, the cat is out of the bag

my moniker actually means 'you can be anything you want to be' which is something my mom used to tell me

you were exactly right, except by one word, and 'all' and 'anything' almost mean the same thing within the context

i was impressed, and told my wife, and she said, "you're talking with chess people, they must be pretty smart to figure that out"

anyway, as to your comment the players were tough up and down the lineup, basically all i meant is Naka has the ability to go the distance if he so desires, regardless of the opposition, their strength, or rating, heck, i think he could win a match with Rybka!

<<<PinnedPiece: <youcanbeallyouwanttobe> Aren't you ignoring the strength of Naka's final 4 round opponents in your analysis?>>>

Feb-04-10  s4life: < frogbert: <In reality a player is often either underrated or overrated. > s4life, i'm not sure if i agree to that use of the terms "underrated" and "overrated". for instance, among the top 30-35 players, i would say that at least 15-20 players have a rating that describes their relative level as exactly>

That's just what I said.. 'often' meaning about 'half the time' in that context.

But this depends on how strict is the definition of underrated/overrated that you are using. Philosophically speaking, it is impossible to build a rating(perception) model which can take into account all the factors that affect its rating(resp. perception); thus in a strict sense, every player(resp. person) alive is either underrated/overrated no matter the point of reference.

Feb-04-10  PinnedPiece: <ycbaywtb>

Sorry I got the name wrong. ;-} The rest of the post was just filler after I cottoned onta ya.

.

Feb-04-10  frogbert: <That's just what I said.. 'often' meaning about 'half the time' in that context.>

s4life, i guess that's the problem of using a term like 'often'. i still disagree though: the 15-20 players i was talking about wouldn't be overrated/underrated even half the time. they would in my opinion be "correctly rated" clearly most of the time.

there's a clear difference between stating that 1) half the players are correctly rated most of the time, and 2) most of the players are only correctly rated half the time.

also note that even a player that is consistently and slowly improving (rating-wise) i would consider to be correctly rated for any practical purpose.

<But this depends on how strict is the definition of underrated/overrated that you are using.>

i'm opting for a <meaningful> definition, taking the reality of the matter into consideration, like i wrote in my previous post. i think that when using these terms, one should take into account the demonstrably <normal> variations in players' performances. ratings will go up and down slightly, even if the player's basic strength do not change. even a player with no form variations will experience moderate rating fluctuations - see jakovenko's chessbase article published during the k-factor discussions for justification of this view.

and there also exists clearly meaningless strictness levels - as in saying that if some player's rating change at all, he/she was overrated/underrated before. (if you play 4 events, you might have scored the result theoretically closest to your expectation in each event, and still end up winning/losing 10 rating points with a k of 10.)

i understand your philosophical angle, but my concern is of a rather practical kind: to allow more people to understand better what ratings are and what they say - and what they can't say for sure. as we know, ratings reflect results, and results only. hence, for various reasons one can have a string of bad results and a string of good results without any actual change in "strength". alas, there are good streaks and bad streaks.

excessive talk about players being underrated/overrated might support the idea that a player that gains 20 points <"has improved for sure"> and equivalently that a player that loses 20-30 points somehow has become worse. most of the time neither is the case.

better results and hence gain of rating can for example be due to

1) being in slightly better shape
2) facing opponents of "the right kind"
3) various random variations

and similarly for worse results and loss of rating points, with 1) and 2) inversed. people have only reached a new level when the "constant" c i was talking about in my previous post has changed by a notable amount. this is more or less equivalent to defending (or confirming) a rating level over time - which means some significant number of games and a longer time period than most people's bursts of good and bad form.

anyway, i think you've understood my point of view by now. :o)

Feb-04-10  frogbert: <basically all i meant is Naka has the ability to go the distance if he so desires, regardless of the opposition, their strength, or rating, heck, i think he could win a match with Rybka!>

ycbaywtb, so it's basically <ncbahwtb> you're saying. ;o)

personally i think fine-tuning some of the chess-skills would be as useful as working on the <desire>. currently nakamura has some work to do before he can become world champion - no matter how much he desires it. but maybe your point is that given the right desire, he will do what it takes to get there... :o)

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 858)
search thread:   
ARCHIVED POSTS
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 397 OF 858 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.
  8. Do not degrade Chessgames or any of it's staff/volunteers.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.


NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific player only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

Spot an error? Please suggest your correction and help us eliminate database mistakes!
Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2025, Chessgames Services LLC