|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 14 OF 99 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Mar-31-05 | | acirce: Anti-Semitism and this kind of pro-Semitism bordering chauvinism might be, in a way, two sides of the same coin. Jews often show an unfortunate tendency to ethnocentrism and exaggerated internal solidarity. And I know this is a sensitive subject... |
|
| Mar-31-05 | | WMD: <pro-Semitism> The correct term is philosemitism. <And I know this is a sensitive subject...> Jump in where angels fear to tread:
http://www.sobran.com/fearofjews.sh... |
|
Mar-31-05
 | | Eric Schiller: <wmd et al> A very good article, though a bit rambling. Still, in the chess world these issues have played important roles. The overwhelming majority of the chess community is tolerant of most views (though Sistani's edict that "chess is an abominatino" does not sit well, especially with Iraqi players!). As in the "real world", the vague term "anti-semitic" is often applied when "anti-zionist" would be more appropriate.
These things affect organizers and chess politicians more than players. But I do recall that at the Tessaloniki Olympiad, during the blitz tournament an Arab and Israeli player were accidentally paired. The players started the game, no problem. But their delegations stepped in, and a nasty scene ensued.
At that same event, I was "reported" to various authorities because at a FIDE dinner I had the nerve to actually sit down and dine with Palestinian players. We spoke of many things, including politics, and they frankly admitted that they had never before met anyone of Jewish background who was so opposed to the policies of the Israeli government. It was a great exchange of views, and only the American chess burocrats had any problem with it.
As the FIDE motto goes, Gens Una Sumus. That means we should be able to argue amongst ourselves, just like family! |
|
| Mar-31-05 | | Broon Bottle: The sooner we get rid of religion the better. One planet, one people (apart from chess players)
ch-cheers
PS. Why doesn't the United States sign up to Kyoto? |
|
Mar-31-05
| | Eric Schiller: <broom> The great thing about chess is that it brings together people with every conceivable religious or political view, in a civlized way. My own opinions have been greatly influenced by my direct interaction with chessplayers from all over the world.
When it comes to "Organized religion" I tend to agree with you (and George Carlin), but we can surely have a planet where people have strong individual views about religious issues. As for Kyoto, the American position is indefensible, and most of the country agrees. But the people do not set policy, the politicians do.
It is hardly an accident that the majority of well-traveled chessplayers seems to be heavily skewed toward progressive politics. And some progressive politicians have made statements using chess. The cover of Arianna Huffington's "Fools and Fanatics" is a good example. |
|
| Mar-31-05 | | Appaz: <WMD> Very interesting read, he makes some very valid points. When considering the evilness of Holocaust, it is worth remembering that it would only have taken the Hutus of Rwanda <TWO years> to reach 6 million killed Tutsies, if they where allowed to go on. It is also worth remembering 20 million Russians, 10 million Chinese and 4 million Poles. I will also mention that last time they marked the day for the crystal night here in Norway, they "forgot" to invite the gypsies. They were only allowed in after the goverment criticized it. <Broon Bottle> I agree with you. Religion in its present form is a psycholgical issue, not a meta-physical. To bad a lot of people can't handle things like meaninglessness and infinity without such tools. |
|
| Mar-31-05 | | acirce: It was a pretty macabre article, typical for contemporary conservative anti-Semitism, although with some elements of truth. Much like Fischer's ravings. |
|
| Mar-31-05 | | Chris00nj: <Broon Bottle: The sooner we get rid of religion the better. One planet, one people (apart from chess players) ch-cheers PS. Why doesn't the United States sign up to Kyoto?> I think it would be arrogant to assume that there is no higher power at all in this world. Kyoto does nothing to stem global warming. So-called developing countries, like India and China have to do nothing while they pollute like at levels not seen in the US since the 1890s. The US already imposes strict pollution guidelines on its refineries and power plants (and I've worked in environmental engineering). The notion that people have caused global warming is theoretical at best. It almost doesn't matter because the countries who are required to act will not meet their targets anyway. The fact that the US Senate, including all the Europhiles and UNphiles, voted 98-0 against it, speaks volumes to its absurdity. |
|
Mar-31-05
 | | keypusher: <Broon Bottle> Quite right about religion. The Soviet gulag, the Nazi concentration camps, the Great Leap Forward and the killing fields of Cambodia are all recent examples of the horrors that can come from religi -- oops, never mind. |
|
| Mar-31-05 | | Appaz: <keypusher> The thoughts behind those massacres have one thing in common with religion: only <one> truth. |
|
Mar-31-05
| | keypusher: <Appaz> -- The GLF was not a massacre, but a famine. Nor can the gulag, or even the camps, be called a massacre, though many died there. The critical thing is not the number of truths a person believes in, but what those truths are. One can believe passionately in a Master Race or believe passionately that all men are brothers. |
|
| Apr-01-05 | | Appaz: <keypusher> According to this <http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-...; massacres don't seem to have a time limit. When lots of people die regulary, because of human actions or neglect, I think we can call it a massacre. The critical thing must be if you allow people to believe something different than yourself. |
|
Apr-01-05
| | keypusher: <Appaz> It's not a matter of how much time. The camps were a place where massacres took place, but they were not massacres. But I am just quibbling. Agree with you about importance of allowing others to believe something different. |
|
| Apr-03-05 | | vonKrolock: Boris, Bobby and others are in good company:Francesco di Castellvi the winner of the first known modern Chess Game - mazel tov |
|
| Apr-03-05 | | BadTemper: And simen tov. |
|
| Apr-04-05 | | tud: vonkrolock, I believe stories about Spasski and his jewish hate are as true as his jewish origin. Look at his life, for god`s sake and look at his friends and trainers. The man was a pure gentleman. |
|
| Apr-05-05 | | Champ Supernova: spassky is half jew, half russian. Just like Fischer, his mom is jewish and therefore he is considered a jew. Just like Fischer he is an anti-semite. |
|
| Apr-05-05 | | tud: Could you give us a source ? Here it says that Spasski does not agree with that http://www.jinfo.org/Chess_Players.....
(HarperCollins, New York, 2004, pp. 313-321). This reference, incidentally, states (p. 39) that Boris Spassky told its authors that there is "no truth" to the widely reported claim that his mother was Jewish.
Urban legends, that's all. Who knows better than him ? Botvinnik did not have any problems to acknowledge his jewish origin and he was the father of soviet chess. I am telling you because in the past many people have played with origins just to make room in a business (like chess). Talking about the wonderkid Spasski, he could be one of them. And can someone give a reliable source of his antisemitism ? Maybe his friend Efim Geller, the right hand in the match against Fischer ? |
|
| Apr-05-05 | | pazzed paun: there was a rumour after 1992 rematch with Fischer that Spassky had agreed to not use contempoary opening theory (as of 1992) against Fischer. |
|
Apr-05-05
 | | IMlday: I agree with Eric, anti-semitism is a dumb philosophy because Gens Una Sumus.
Nowadays, considering biodiversity etc., maybe we will be Gens Una Life-form or some such.
I had an hour or so discussing "conspiracy theory" with Boris and he didn't seem anti-semitic at all. The so-called 'Jewish problem' is that you can't talk about certain historical facts without being misinterpreted as 'antisemitic. But, as Boris points out in the interview,
the Bolshevik revolutionaries of 1917 were predominately Jewish. The financing came from Jewish New York bankers. Like it or not, and who likes Romanov Czarism?, there was a Jewish element to the Bolshevik revolution and therefore to the subsequent 'Gulag System'. Certain Jews were as involved in the birth of the Soviet Union, and, as "intelligent and well-educated" Russians know, also involved in its demise. After a few lawless years, when Yeltsin's gangsterism ruled, all the Russian public resources had been privatised at ridiculously low prices to 7 banker/oligarchs. The process was major-league corrupt and six of the seven bankers were Jewish. Every intelligent and well-educated Russian knows this. It is simply history. But you won't read about it in the American press, for fear of being labeled 'anti-Semitic'. When Boris talks about 'the Jewish problem' then that reference is to difficulties of communication since real anti-Semites have polluted the avenues. |
|
| Apr-05-05 | | WMD: <This reference, incidentally, states (p. 39) that Boris Spassky told its authors that there is "no truth" to the widely reported claim that his mother was Jewish. > Sorry, what reference? |
|
| Apr-05-05 | | tud: This one http://www.jinfo.org/ add the document
Chess_Players.html + an interview given by Boris a long while ago to a romanian journalist + a lot of inside stories.
In Europe, christianity did not allow long time the christians to give money with interest and did not let jews and other religions to have land in Europe. Subsequently, the financials have become mostly jewish (what other sources of existence ?) . In Romania, where the bankers were not jewish, they robbed banks in the lawless period much better and faster than the russian bankers. So, yes Tal was jewish and this does not make him better or worse, he shines in the same way his legend. Capablanca, Karpov and Spasski were not and this does not make them less capable of playing chess. And Kasparov is a hard thing for philo and antisemitism :-) was he jewish with mother russian ? was he russian with father jewish. :-) Hard to get it, isnt it ? |
|
| Apr-06-05 | | Champ Supernova: Spassky is half-jewish!!! His sister's name is Raida or something, one of the most jewish names possible. |
|
| Apr-06-05 | | vonKrolock: <Champ Supernova> Do You know Spassky's mother-side surname!? - as he's a World Champion, this should not be hard to know <tud> I hear for more than three decades now the version maintained here initially; but of course we'll respect Spassky's own version (the same source states however that Fischer's father was Jewish - so they leaves a mother, but take a father...). There's a link-from-link there, however, where we can read that Kramnik and Khalifman are Jewish names (easilly spotted whithout need of confirmation) and that their genaalogy is not yet enough known, and, last but not least, that Karpov have <"some Jewish grandparents"> (new for me)
So what? Christians and Jews miscigenated and had children that played Chess, nothing more... http://www.jinfo.org/Chess_Champion... |
|
| Apr-06-05 | | like a GM: <Champ Supernova: His sister's name is Raida> "His sister, Irena, had won the USSR championship in draughts (checkers)."
http://members.tripod.com/HSK_Chess... |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 14 OF 99 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
