TONY MILES (born Apr-23-1955, died Nov-12-2001, 46 years old) United Kingdom [what is this?] Anthony "Tony" Miles was born in Birmingham, England. At the age of five, Miles was taught chess by his father.(1) He was educated at King Edward's school in Birmingham, and went on to study Mathematics at Sheffield University, declining an offered place at Oxford.(1) He never finished his university education, opting to become a professional chess player instead.(1) Early Chess Career In 1968, Miles won the British U-14 Championship,(2) and the British U-21 Championship in 1971.(3) He debuted in the British Championships (1972), scoring 50%.(3) The next year, Miles went on to share 4th at Lone Pine (1973), won the Silver medal at the Junior World Championship in Teesside (1973) and beat the tournament winner Alexander Beliavsky in their individual encounter, Beliavsky vs Miles, 1973. (2) He also won the Birmingham (1973) International tournament ahead of Andras Adorjan and Arthur Bisguier and lost not a single game in 11 rounds.(1)(3) Miles won the Gold medal at the World Junior Championship in Manila (1974) with a 1.5 point margin, securing the IM title with this win A Kochyev vs Miles, 1974. (3) He shared second place at British Championship (1975). Britain's First Chess Grandmaster Miles achieved his first GM norm by winning London (1975), (3) and later became Britain's first home-grown over-the-board Chess Grandmaster,(4) after finishing third with 9.0/15 at Dubna (1976) in February.(3) Miles received a £5,000 award from James Slater for this feat.(1),(2),(3) One of the World's Best Chessplayers His first great tournament win was Amsterdam (1976), where he shared first place with Viktor Korchnoi. (2),(3) He shared 2nd place at Lone Pine (1976), and won Amsterdam (1977) and Biel (1977).(3) Miles came in 2nd at Tilburg Interpolis (1977), shared 4th at Buenos Aires (Konex) (1979), shared 2nd at Buenos Aires (Clarin) (1979) and 2nd at Lone Pine (1980). In 1980, the European Team Championship in Skara, Sweden saw England paired against the USSR.(2) Most crucial for England's 4.0-4.0 draw in the match, was Miles' spectacular win over the World Champion, Karpov vs Miles, 1980, replying to 1.e4 with 1...a6.(2) Miles also had good results at Las Palmas (1980), sharing 1st with Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian and Efim Geller, and scored +4 -1 =6 at Vrbas (1980), ahead of Petrosian.(3) He finished Baden-Baden (1981) unbeaten and equal 1st together with Zoltan Ribli, ahead of Korchnoi.(3) Miles won his first and only British Championship title in Torquay, in 1982.(3). He shared 1st with John Nunn at Biel (1983),(3). In 1984, he finshied 2nd behind Karpov at Oslo (1984),(3) before winning Tilburg (1984) by 1.5 points, which was called his "best result" by Barden.(2). In addition, he scored +1 -0 =3 at USSR vs. Rest of the World (1984). A remarkable event was his 22-board Blindfold Simul in Roetgen, Germany on 20 May 1984.(5) Miles scored +10 -2 =10 during the 11.5 hours lasting Simul, while in a sound proofed booth and without access to score sheets.(5) At Tilburg (1985), Miles shared 1st with Robert Huebner and Korchnoi, beating the latter in both games, Korchnoi vs Miles, 1985 and Miles vs Korchnoi, 1985. (3) After a bad start, Miles injured his back and started a winning streak when playing on a hospital massage table.(2) In 1986, Miles came in shared 2nd at Dortmund (1986),(3) but lost a match in Basel against Garry Kasparov by the score of +0 -5 =1, remarking afterwards: "I thought that he was 'only' the World Champion. When I came to Basel, I met some kind of monster with one hundred eyes, which do not miss anything at all."(6) Despite his many excellent results, Miles never became a World Champion candidate, although he participated in four Inter-zonals.(3) Leonard William Barden explained: "The problem was that he globetrotted too much, travelling from one tournament to another with hardly a break, leaving insufficient time for preparation and rest."(2) Later Chess Career A new generation of British chessplayers, among them Nigel Short began to overtake him.(2) Short had already reached a higher rating than Miles, yet only played on board 3 at the Dubai Olympiad (1986), where England won the Silver medal.(7) Short explained in his obituary for Miles: "I obtained a measure of revenge not only by eclipsing Tony in terms of chess performance but also by sleeping with his girlfriend, which was definitely satisfying but perhaps not entirely gentlemanly."(8) Later, Short explained: "Tony was insanely jealous of my success, and his inability to accept that he was no longer Britain’s number one was an indication of, if not a trigger for, his descent into madness. His first psychiatric internment came in 1987, and he was in and (usually) out of institutions for the remainder of his days. Thankfully, there was much more to him than that."(9) The year 1987 became most crucial for Miles' career and life, when he made public what had happened 2 years before, at the Inter-zonal in Tunisia (1985). Back then, Raymond Keene had approached Miles and wanted to become his second. It was known that Miles didn't want a second and he declined again, so Keene offered him the opportunity to make money. English chess supporters had established a fund to finance the expenses and fees of seconds for those English chessplayers, who had reached the Inter-zonals. All Miles had to do, was to claim that Keene had been his second, and then Keene would split the profits with him. Miles said that he should go ahead, and if he was asked about it, wouldn't contradict Keene, but answer that seconds were underpaid. Since Keene didn't act as his second, Miles forgot about the issue. At the British Championship in Edinburgh, three months later, Keene handed Miles a cheque for £589. Miles photo-copied the cheque and two years later, after failed private investigations, he confronted David W Anderton who said that Keene had acted as Miles' second and had been paid as such. Miles explained to him what had happened and handed him a cheque for £589 in favour of Keene, in case Keene returned the whole money to the British Chess Federation (BCF). After a preliminary inquiry by David Jarrett and Mohammed Amin, the BCF decided to hold a formal inquiry into the accusations in October 1987. Obsessed with bringing Keene to justice, Miles became more and more irrational and when the inquiry was postponed due to the death of Keene's wife's grandmother, Miles believed that he had caused her death. Miles was arrested in Downing Street when trying to talk to the Prime-Minister,(10) later writing: "Perhaps I should mention that I spent several months in hospital from the end of September 87 – a result of banging my head against a bureaucratic brick wall – and am especially ill-informed for that period."(11) Keene let the BCF know that he wouldn't attend the inquiry at the new or any future date and that he resigned from the BCF. In The Times, Keene said that his resignation had nothing to do with the accusations, but to establish the English Chess Association. While Miles underwent treatment in a mental hospital in Birmingham, the BCF dropped the inquiry. Keene said that he had been Miles' second, spending much time with him at Tunis. He also said that he expected to be Short's second, which was turned down. When Miles declined, Keene believed that offering him money would change his mind. According to Keene, Miles agreed by telephone. Larry Mark Christiansen, also present at Tunis: “I don’t believe Ray was Tony’s second,” he says. “Tony spent most of his time with me and another American grandmaster. Ray seemed to spend his time politicking and sitting by the hotel pool with his wife.”(10) In 1987, Miles also transferred allegiance to the USA, when he was no longer top board of the English Olympiad team and also settled in Germany.(2) Miles' chess suffered after the scandal, but when he moved back to Birmingham, his results improved again.(2) He scored 50% at Wijk aan Zee (1989) and 8.5/15 at the US Championships (1989).(3) He shared 3rd behind Karpov and Ulf Andersson at Biel (1990) and 3rd in Biel (1992) and played for England again.(3) Miles won the Capablanca Memorial four times, in 1994, 1995, 1996 and 1999.(3) He had another great momemt at the PCA Intel Rapid Chess Grand Prix (1995) in London, where he knocked out Vladimir Kramnik in round 1, and was only stopped by Michael Adams in the semi-final.(3) Miles went on to participate in tournaments, but around 2001, his interest in chess waned: "I am playing more bridge than chess these days (bit bored!)."(12) Chess Author Miles wrote a chess column for the Sunday Telegraph, before he was fired by Dominic Lawson. (5) Miles wrote chess book reviews for Kingpin.(13) He also had a famous chess column, The Miles Report at Chess Café, after Edward Winter had suggested that to him in agreement with Hanon W Russell. (5) The column, which ran from July 1999 to October 2001, is still available online.(14) Private Life Miles was divorced twice. One of his wives was Jana Malypetrova Hartston Miles Bellin. He had no children.(2) Suffering from diabetes, Miles died of a heart failure in his sleep, in Harborne, Birmingham.(2),(3) Theoretical Contributions A line of the Queen's Indian Defence (E12, http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches..., 1.d4 ♘f6 2.c4 e6 3.♘f3 b6 4.♗f4) is called the Miles Variation. Sources (1) The Telegraph, 14 November 2001, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obi... (2) Leonard William Barden, The Guardian, 14 November 2001, http://www.theguardian.com/news/200... (3) Mark Crowther, The Week in Chess 367, 19 November 2001, http://www.theweekinchess.com/html/... (4) Jacques Mieses (GM title in 1950) was a naturalized Brit originally from Germany. Keith Bevan Richardson held the Correspondence GM title. (5) Edward Winter, Tony Miles (1955-2001), http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... (6) Interview with Heinz Weber, Basler Zeitung, 23 May 1986, p. 3. Reprinted in Edward Winter, Kasparov v Miles, Basle, 1986, http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/.... Translated by User: Karpova, original: "Ich glaubte, er sei 'bloss' der Weltmeister. Als ich dann nach Basel kam, traf ich eine Art Monster mit hundert Augen, denen auch nicht das Geringste entgeht." (7) Wojciech Bartelski, OlimpBase :: the online encyclopaedia of international team chess events, http://www.olimpbase.org/1986/1986i... and http://www.olimpbase.org/1986/1986e... (8) Nigel Short, Sunday Telegraph, 18 November 2001. Reproduced in Justin Horton, Ten years ago this week, 16 November 2011, http://streathambrixtonchess.blogsp... (9) Nigel Short, The Sunday chess column, The Telegraph, 30 November 2003, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/... (10) Nick Pitt, Sunday Times Colour Supplement, Keene's Gambit, 13 January 1991, pp. 16-26. Reproduced in http://streathambrixtonchess.blogsp.... Anthony Miles, Generous to a Fault, Kingpin, issue 15, Summer 1989. Published online on 10 November 2011, http://www.kingpinchess.net/2011/11... (11) Anthony Miles in a letter to Edward Winter, 24 July 1989. Reprinted in Edward Winter, Tony Miles (1955-2001), http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... (12) Anthony Miles in an e-mail to Edward Winter, 10 January 2001. Reproduced in Edward Winter, Tony Miles (1955-2001), http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... (13) Review of Eric Schiller 's Unorthodox Chess Openings: http://www.kingpinchess.net/2009/02.... Review of Keene's and Michael Gelb's Samurai Chess: Mastering the Martial Art of the Mind: http://www.kingpinchess.net/2009/02.... (14) Zip-file for download, http://www.chesscafe.com/archives/p... Wikipedia article: Tony Miles Last updated: 2019-07-26 13:21:38

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page 1 of 114; games 1-25 of 2,828  Game   Result Moves Year Event/Locale Opening 1. Miles vs Bissicks   1-0 26 1967 Schools Competition B72 Sicilian, Dragon 2. I McNab vs Miles 0-1 22 1967 BCF-ch U14 A00 Uncommon Opening 3. P S Farelly vs Miles 0-1 33 1967 BCF-ch U14 C34 King's Gambit Accepted 4. Miles vs A J Butcher   0-1 29 1969 Staffordshire op B81 Sicilian, Scheveningen, Keres Attack 5. Miles vs Nunn 1-0 20 1969 BCF-ch U18 C55 Two Knights Defense 6. Miles vs J R Dennis 1-0 23 1969 BCF-ch U18 C55 Two Knights Defense 7. R W Howley vs Miles   ½-½ 30 1969 BCF-ch U18 A00 Uncommon Opening 8. Miles vs F O'Donohoe   1-0 42 1970 Glorney Cup C44 King's Pawn Game 9. D J Findlay vs Miles 0-1 56 1970 Glorney Cup C63 Ruy Lopez, Schliemann Defense 10. D Bray vs Miles 0-1 35 1970 Glorney Cup A04 Reti Opening 11. Miles vs J Hanau   1-0 32 1970 Glorney Cup C45 Scotch Game 12. Miles vs A Whiteley   ½-½ 45 1970 Islington Open B78 Sicilian, Dragon, Yugoslav Attack, 10.castle long 13. A Milnes vs Miles   0-1 30 1970 Islington Open C44 King's Pawn Game 14. Miles vs Speelman 0-1 39 1970 Islington Open B32 Sicilian 15. Miles vs R R Smith 1-0 26 1970 Islington Junior A B13 Caro-Kann, Exchange 16. R Bellin vs Miles   1-0 55 1970 Islington Junior A C42 Petrov Defense 17. Miles vs M Stean 1-0 53 1970 Islington Junior A B90 Sicilian, Najdorf 18. R O'Kelly vs Miles   ½-½ 40 1970 Islington Junior A D32 Queen's Gambit Declined, Tarrasch 19. Miles vs Nunn 0-1 49 1970 Islington Junior A C44 King's Pawn Game 20. R Moberly vs Miles 1-0 34 1970 Islington Junior A C25 Vienna 21. Miles vs S Mariotti   0-1 36 1970 Islington Junior A B87 Sicilian, Fischer-Sozin with ...a6 and ...b5 22. R Farley vs Miles 0-1 51 1971 Staffordshire op B02 Alekhine's Defense 23. Miles vs J J Carleton   1-0 33 1971 Staffordshire op C02 French, Advance 24. Miles vs D Anderton   0-1 42 1971 Staffordshire op A07 King's Indian Attack 25. E H Goodwin vs Miles 0-1 26 1971 Staffordshire op A56 Benoni Defense  page 1 of 114; games 1-25 of 2,828

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< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 6 OF 13 ·  Later Kibitzing> Apr-14-09    gus inn: <blacksburg> Yes , he was the first. Apr-23-09    wordfun: Happy Birthday to one of my favorite GMs.....Tony Miles! I miss you idol!!! Apr-23-09    WhiteRook48: Happy Birthday GM Miles! Jul-18-09    wordfunph: GM Anthony Miles Collection of Quotations: "I think I can safely conclude that there is not a lot to be said for playing chess while in Valium." "No small part of my favouritism is due to the fact that it clinched the World Junior Championship for me --- one of my best moments in chess." "On the chessboard, first we seek the truth." "I thought I was playing the world champion, not a monster with thousand eyes who sees everything." (on GM Garry Kasparov) "The fidgiest player on earth." (on GM Walter Shawn Browne) “Henrique Mecking ... apparently, plays just one tournament every three years spending most of his time studiously preparing for the moment when the World Championship will be his. I will not bore you with my views on this practice but suffice it to say I consider it most unnatural and faintly unhealthy. Having said this I must confess that I've just lost to him without getting out of the opening.” "Even his enemies will miss him." (wrote one obituarist on GM Tony Miles) “I heard that Karpov felt insulted by my choice of opening." (on his unforgettable win with his surprising St. George Opening) "I have no style --- I just make moves." "When I started to study mathematics I decided that I had to work at my studies at least for the first trimester. I didn't do anything, but I didn't play chess during those three months either. I drank a lot and went to discotheques a lot. But afterwards I played at Hastings --- and started with 1 out of 7. I simply couldn't play anymore. It was only in the second half of the tournament that I got going. I made 4 1/2 out of 8, including a win from Kuzmin. So it took me seven rounds to remember how I must play chess." "Perhaps the most important trait a player needs is a warped sense of humour." "Well, talk to your pieces --- which of them is happy?" (on his round 5 game in 2001 British Championship against GM Jonathan Rowson) "I just play the little wooden things." "I learned to play from my father at age five. I played every night for a year until I got bored. I then 'retired' for three years. My life in chess really began as a type of accident, since I started playing at school when I was nine. There was a chess craze at the time and I found that I was good at the game. I always beat everyone, including teachers." "I knew how Eley would play, and decided that I would have to checkmate him before he offered me a draw. So I played aggressively to win, and it worked." "My worst moment in chess was the despair I felt during the 1973 World Junior Championship. About five rounds before the end, I knew I would not win and discovered that it meant more to me than I had realized." (most quotes were lifted from "Tony Miles: It's Only Me" by Geoff Lawton) Jul-19-09    Karpova: Anthony Miles reviews "Samurai Chess: Mastering the Martial Art of the MindSamurai" by Ray Keene and Michael Gelb (Aurum Press, 1997) and Dr. Eric Schiller's "Unorthodox Chess Openings" (Cardoza Publishing, 1998): http://www.chesscenter.com/kingpin/... Jul-19-09    ray keene: i am afraid tony wilfully chose to misunderstand what was being written in samurai chess-the book in fact sold out in the uk and a usa edition followed afterwards-the claims the book makes , which miles attacks, are in fact solidly founded in truth- i was ready to forgive tony his wayward remarks because of his condition at the time. tony was a great player and i would prefer he were remembered that way rather than by ill considered and possibly libellous comments which he probably would have come to regret. Jul-19-09    kurtrichards: <ray keene: tony was a great player and i would prefer he were remembered that way rather than by ill considered and possibly libelous comments which he probably would have come to regret.> yes,mr keene. and i wish bobby fischer too. fischer should be remembered not because of his negative side (hope everybody knows what i mean with "negative side") but because of chess, his contribution to chess ( lots of it ),etc. Jul-19-09    ray keene: AMEN TO THAT! Jul-19-09    whiteshark: I object, Mr. Keene! To me Miles’ review of "Samurai Chess” is one of the best book reviews I’ve read for many a long year. I had a lot of laughter while reading it. Writing only about negligibilities with irony is really brilliant. <… because of his condition at the time> that’s very poor from your side - de mortuis nil nisi bene! Furthermore I don’t believe that Miles would have cancelled a single word, what for? I have read several good books from Gelb and yourself and in my opinion Samurai Chess is the worst what you both have ever written. Two mediocre parts put together into a book. Probably he’d used the “utter crap” phrase already for another book. Jul-20-09    ray keene: i agree that miles review of samurai chess is very amusing -sadly its a pack of lies! i was objecting to his veracity not his wit.i also happen to believe that tony was not so cynical that he wd have come to realise in due course that he had scored some amusing but cheap points by lying. <de mortuis nil nisi bonum> is a laudable aspiration, but occasionally one has to put the record straight for posterity. as i said, the faith in this book of two different publishers in the uk and usa plus the sales of samurai chess speak for themselves . the point of the book is to show something i believe in very deeply-the transferability of chess skills to other domains-it may to some look like two disparate items -chess and martial arts-brought together , but a careful reading will show -in my opinion-that we were trying to get a hgihly specific message across to a wide audience-one that might not necessarily take up martial arts but could nevertheless benfit from martial arts wisdom, and use chess as the conduit for opening up new vistas of transferabilty of skills and understanding. i actually think that samurai chess is one of my most important books for the general public. Jul-22-09    whiteshark: Thank you for your respond, Mr. Keene. <a pack of lies> in this book review? I can't make them out. So if it's not too much of a hassle would you quote them. Jul-23-09    ray keene: certainly-first of all the entire tone of the review is derogatory and dismissive , suggesting that the claims we make in the book are false. he impugns the number of uk titles i have won, wrongly, he accuses the book of being composed of standard whaffle, when in fact the argument about the transferability of chess skill is a topic we thought about deeply, he claims there is no real information about martial arts,which is untrue, and takes items out of context to make the book look as ridiculous as possible-need i continue? i think the fact that the book sold out with its uk publisher and was then taken up by a usa publisher speaks for itself. many people who have actually invested their time to read the book properly ( a group which i doubt included tony miles) have complimented it and no-one who bought it has ever complained to me-much the reverse! to paraphrase nimzowitsch-ridicule cannot hold up the passage of new ideas, and i think we were ahead of our time in our elaboration of the concept of transferability of skills from chess. it is now scientifically proven that chess, along with dancing, is a powerful remedy against alzheimers disease. meanwhile, prof michael crawford of the london metropolitan university research unit into brain chemistry and human nutrition has accepted our invitation to open this years staunton memorial tournament at simpsons on august 8 , not least because he believes too that chess and the characteristics it encourages, can assist with overall brain fitness. in comparison with this kind of endorsement and suppport i feel tonys gripes are just a minor obstacle on the path towards ches becoming recognised as the optimal gymnasium for the mind! Aug-03-09    kingfu: Very gracious, GM Keene. Thank you for a much needed clarification. We should always remember the good stuff. In the age of a thousand Rybkas crunching numbers on every chess nuance, I take much pleasure in playing over Tony's games. Especially his games with the "unusual" openings!! For example, game 52 Miles-Pytel Hastings 1973, (Benko beat Fischer in Curacao 1963 with 1 g3 but that opening turned into a kind of King's Indian).For most of the game Tony had 0! pieces beyond the White 3rd rank. Black frantically throws pieces and pawns at the White position. When Tony finally does move a piece beyond the third rank, black runs toward resignation! A thousand Rybkas with a thousand CPUs will NEVER play as cool as Tony. We miss him madly. Aug-03-09    kingfu: Benko-Fischer in Curacao was 1962 not 1963. Aug-03-09    parisattack: <wordfunph: GM Anthony Miles Collection of Quotations: > Referring to a knight move from with g8-h6-f7 or b8-a6-c7 I believe it was Miles who said to the affect, "The knight stands better here than on (f6,c6)...too bad it takes two moves to get there." Can anyone confirm and if so, source? In any event at c7 or f7 early it is sort of a Fischer Random piece and when I've played it (from a Robatsch or De Bruycker) it certainly enlivens the game. Aug-03-09    blacksburg: <Unorthodox Chess Openings by Eric Schiler. Cardoza Publishing 1998, 520 pp., £18.95. Utter crap.> hehehe best book review ever. Aug-09-09    MarkThornton: A problem dedicated to the memory of Tony Miles: click for larger view This position arose after Black's 11th move. What was the game score? The problem was published in The Problemist, in September 2009. For the solution, please follow this link: http://www.softdecc.com/pdb/search.... Aug-15-09    DoubtingThomas: How many UK titles did Ray Keene win then? A list might be helpful here. Aug-18-09    ray keene: <doubting thomas> welcome to www.chessgames.com i see you have been active here for about a week already, with two posts about me. korchnoi was delighted to play in my staunton tournament, so perhaps he has revised his earlier opinion-secondly -as i may have pointed out before-my cv is on this very site so you can check which titles i won and when-i also won quite a few dutch national titles which shd be mentioned there too. re samurai chess-i wd also like to add that chapter 12 deals with nutrition and chess and was way ahead of its time-later i wll quote some words from gm nigel davies about this aspect! Aug-18-09    ray keene: this is from gm nigel davies' excellent website and blog-he pinpoints the importance of the nutritional aspect for mental sportsmen and i believe this shows how far ahead we were with samurai chess-gm davies has , in fact told me that samurai chess is one of his favourite books-unlike some others i might mention he clearly took the trouble to actually read it!! over to gm nigel davies: <Well I lost the last round game against Jan Timman who kept a small advantage for most of the game with this then becoming a win when I misplayed the bishop endgame. But I managed to win 4th prize with my plus one and it was also the best result by a Brit in this section. So not too bad overall. During the closing dinner I got the opportunity to quiz Professor Crawford about his talk and it seems that there is considerable evidence to support his hypothesis about brain function being largely dependent upon nutrition. I took some notes on the back of the envelope containing my prize. I’ll certainly be following this up. I have to say that this was a really superb event, and a style of tournament that is a rarity in this day and age. The organisation and venue (Simpson’s in the Strand) was superb and the atmosphere truly inspirational. I got to meet up with some old friends from the days I lived in Sidcup, on some days the spectators were as strong as many of the participants. This might well be my last serious tournament for a while so I’d like to thank Ray Keene for making it possible.> Aug-18-09    DoubtingThomas: Hi Ray. Thanks for referring me to your CV, I'd not seen it. Counting up - and it's not so easy the way that CV's written, pretty much all in lower case - I think I can see where your 14 is coming from. I think we have: 1 actual UK individual championship 1 UK junior championship 1 UK lightning championship 2 UK schools championships 2 UK universities championships 1 UK county championship 1 UK junior county championship 5 UK club championships Do I have the list right? Now I'm not sure that most people would regard that as "14 separate British championship titles", would they? It's a bit of a misleading way to put it. I mean if your club team won the British club championship, you wouldn't say "Ray Keene won the title", you'd surely say "such-and-such a club won the title". Would you not? If Armenia win the Olympiad, that doesn't make Lev Aronian Olympiad champion. Aug-18-09    WhiteRook48: did miles know he popularized 1...a6? Aug-19-09    ray keene: if i am a member of a team which wins a title-national or otherwise- i regard that as a title won-just as tennis players count doubles and mixed doubles as wimbledon titles-i have been perfectly transparent about this and published all the data here on this site-i was also a member of the dutch team which won the netherlands title on numerous occasions. i dont think this is misleading at all- consider, just as one example, relay races in the olympics-the ioc award a medal to all members of the gold , silver and bronze winning teams and they all regard themselves, and are officially regarded, as medallists. if you prefer to take an opposite view to commonplace international sporting practice -thats up to you. any chance of your revealing your identity by the way-i always prefer to debate with a non anonymous correspondent if possible! Aug-19-09    ray keene: <doubting thomas> as i shall have to call you pro tem, until you perhaps admit your identity--a further very good example is steve redgrave-often referred to as the multiple olympic gold medal winner, when for much of the time he was partnered by pinsent-both are regarded as olympic champions in their own right, irrespective of whether they formed a team. i actually think chessplayers are too modest about their results and tend to undervalue their own achievements when they have been part of a county winning team , or a club--these are real achievements and chessplayers should be more proud of what they have done in their mind sport! Aug-19-09    DoubtingThomas: I'd have thought it was pretty misleading. I think you confuse being a medallist with being a title-holder - hence my Olympiad/Armenia/Aronian example above. Or to take another example - Bobby Moore didn't win the World Cup, England did. Or another - not long ago there was an interview with Andrew Flintoff in the Guardian in which his brother was referred to as having played chess for England. Now in a way, it's true - he played for a representative junior side - but I think in the given context, most readers would assume it meant that he'd played at the same level, in chess, as Andrew Flintoff did in cricket. And they'd be misled. So - to me, it's one of those things that isn't untrue as such, but it stretches the truth and presents it in a way that's contrary to what most people would consider normal practice. This could have been avoided simply by listing the actual titles - and it's an impressive list as it stands, I'd have thought. But Miles was right, I think, it is "twelve more than are commonly known about", because I don't think that (for instance) in the chess world people would know what team had won the UK junior championship in 1966, let alone who was in it. I also think most people would look at the title you won in Blackpool and maybe the junior (Boys?) title if they were feeling generous and count one, or two. You can see it otherwise if you choose, but I don't see any "lie" from Miles here, just a difference in interpretation in which I think he was in the right. Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 13) search thread:    < Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 6 OF 13 ·  Later Kibitzing>

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