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Sep-07-24
 | | harrylime: <<Petrosianic: One thing I've never been clear about it exactly when did Fischer start to become a <daily> news item in the press? I think I always assumed that it was during, or right after the Taimanov match.>> Bobby Fischer on the game show "I've Got A Secret", March 26, 1958. https://youtu.be/otg85v4KJvM?si=5nb... |
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| Sep-07-24 | | Petrosianic: <harrylime:>
<Bobby Fischer on the game show "I've Got A Secret", March 26, 1958.> No, a daily news item, with stories appearing, or people at least expecting to see new stories about him every day. |
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Sep-07-24
| | harrylime: <<Petrosianic: One thing I've never been clear about it exactly when did Fischer start to become a <daily> news item in the press? I think I always assumed that it was during, or right after the Taimanov match.>> Around 1956 |
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| Sep-07-24 | | Petrosianic: He wasn't even a daily news item in the chess press in 1956, much less the non-chess press. I'm not asking what people wish, I'm looking for the real answer. |
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Sep-07-24
 | | beatgiant: <Petrosianic> I'll estimate based on a quick check of the NY Times archives. For most of Fischer's career as a top player (i.e. since late 1950s), he was mentioned around once a month in the New York Times, mostly in the chess column or occasionally in news items in the back pages (like somewhere between page 20 and page 50). His candidates' match win over Petrosian to qualify for the World Championship made the front page on Oct. 27, 1971. After that, he was mentioned about once a week but again mostly in the chess column or back pages. Starting in late March 1972, he's mentioned about every other day in connection with the negotiations around the title match venue, but still not on the front page. July 7, 1972 had a front-page story on the upcoming start of the match and after that, they covered the games and events around the match as soon as they happened, which was near daily. This ended after he won the match, and then he was mentioned whenever he made news, which was a lot less than daily. |
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Sep-08-24
 | | Sally Simpson: Time Magazine 24th March 1958 (page 42) they mentioned . ‘The Game of the Century.’ and introduced Bobby Fischer to the American public with a picture of Bobby and the game. https://www.redhotpawn.com/imgu/blo... They describe him:
“A floppy, abrupt young gangle-shanks, he stumbles through the physical world of school
and subways and summer vacations in a tangle of arms and legs not quite under control.” The cover of the 1958 magazine https://www.redhotpawn.com/imgu/blo... The 1972 May 31st issue of Life, Bobby and Boris had made it to the cover. https://www.redhotpawn.com/imgu/blo... |
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| Sep-08-24 | | Petrosianic: <beatgiant> So, March 1972-ish sounds like a base-date, or about 4-5 months after he became challenger. I wonder if there was any specific event, like the Slater offer, that got the press firmly interested? To figure that out would probably mean going back to that date and reading every article. |
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Sep-08-24
| | beatgiant: <Petrosianic> It was basically the drama around finding a venue and funds for the match amid Fischer's threats to pull out. Here are the actual headlines from March and April, 1972. 3/5 Soviet Union Accepts Belgrade and Rejkjavik as Title Chess Sites 3/21 Details Announced for World Chess
3/26 Fischer Reported Quitting an Accord on Site for Match 4/1 Armed with Big Red Book, Fischer Trains to Meet Spassky 4/5 Fischer Announces He is Ready to Play for World Title 4/7 Yugoslavia Asks for $35,000 to Insure Fischer's Appearance 4/9 Soviet Chess Union Will Pay Guarantee
4/12 Yugoslavia Says No to Top Chess Match
4/14 Fischer-Spassky Games in Belgrade Cancelled, World Chess Group Says 4/15 Host Sought for World Chess Match
4/16 Doubt Voiced on Funds for Top Chess Match
4/18 Netherlands Ruled Out as Site for Title Chess 4/20 Spassky Said to be Willing to Play Fischer in Paris 4/27 Puerto Rico Offers to be Host in Chess |
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Sep-24-24
 | | Check It Out: QOTD:
<[Fischer] had a funny habit: while his opponent was pondering a move, he would now and then brush off specks of dust, real or imaginary, from the opponent's side of the chessboard. Eventually, Petrosian broke him of the habit by giving him a rap on the fingers.
"
--- Alexander Koblents>
I see the top guys do this all the time nowadays. Fischer lives on! |
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| Oct-08-24 | | cameosis: <zanzibar> regarding robson fischer and his possible plagiarism of chess modifications, you’ll find digitized publications of croatian chess problemist izidor gross @ the national and university library of croatia: https://digitalna.nsk.hr/?pr=l&mrf%... his earliest publication is from 1907, šahovska abeceda (the abc of chess). he was one of the co-founders of the croatian chess federation and also organizer of the international tournament in karlovac 1912, the first in the region, alongside opatija (abbazia). in fact, i have found a game from 1860, which is among the earliest played in croatia (then part of austria-hungary), if not the earliest, by antun jordan, mayor of karlovac and deputy to the assembly in pest, against nn. |
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| Oct-09-24 | | stone free or die: FWIW (or for those confused)...
I believe <cameosis> is referring to the precedence that Izidor Gross may have as concerns <Fischer Random>, since apparently Gross suggested essentially the same chess variant. (I need a ref for that, but one can search on the internet to see such suggestions) |
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| Oct-09-24 | | cameosis: you can go to the link i provided and have a look at the books, they’re digitized and open-access. |
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| Oct-09-24 | | stone free or die: <cameosis> do we have a specific ref for his version of random chess? Which book, and what page number?
Looking on the web I find him mentioned often as precursor inventor, but never with the details. (Though sometimes a year is mentioned, e.g. 1910, but your link doesn't have any book published then) |
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| Oct-09-24 | | stone free or die: Also, is there anyway to download the NSK books as pdf files? |
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| Oct-09-24 | | cameosis: i don't think they have a pdf download option. i used downthemall and a batch descriptor to download »povijest šaha« (history of chess) in high resolution, but it involves fiddling with urls. i didn't look specifically for random chess, because i'm not interested in it, but he speaks in detail about variants, including diagrams and board illustrations for courier chess etc, they are, remarkably in color (red), to indicate more than black and white. the other relevant one should be abeceda šaha (abs of chess). the remaining publications are about chess problems, including the section from the karlovac tournament, which is a bit disappointing (quite, actually), as finding the game scores and facts for the tournament would be brilliant. |
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| Oct-09-24 | | cameosis: i shoud have paid more attention - karlovac 1912 was an international PROBLEM tournament, the first of its kind in this region of europe, according to some accounts. mavro gross was his son. |
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| Oct-09-24 | | stone free or die: Is this Mavro?
https://www.geni.com/people/Mavro-M... If so, the "private user" has him emigrating to the US from Croatia. |
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| Oct-10-24 | | cameosis: no, that’s a different one.
izidor’s son’s bio can be found here:
https://zbl.lzmk.hr/?p=120 |
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| Dec-29-24 | | ColdSong: Thanks to Stockfish it appears clearly that a list of games where Fischer is in fact more or less unconvincing can exist,and it would be absolutely interesting to create this list. |
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| Jan-08-25 | | The Rocket: "The 1978 World Chess Championship was played between challenger Viktor Korchnoi and champion Anatoly Karpov in Baguio City, Phillipines. The conditions of the match were changed for the first time since 1951: the 24 game format was replaced with an unlimited game format, with the first player to win 6 games being declared champion." How come FIDE allowed unlimited format between Korchnoi and Karpov, but not when Fischer demanded it just a couple of years earlier? |
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| Jan-08-25 | | Petrosianic: <The Rocket>: <How come FIDE allowed unlimited format between Korchnoi and Karpov, but not when Fischer demanded it just a couple of years earlier?> Your facts are in arrears. They <did> allow it. The final rules for the 1975 match were first to 10 wins, draws not counting. Fischer refused to play without a 2-point edge. |
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| Jan-08-25 | | The Rocket: "Your facts are in arrears. They <did> allow it. The final rules for the 1975 match were first to 10 wins, draws not counting. Fischer refused to play without a 2-point edge."
Fun fact you might not know about: Korchnoi accepted Fischers terms and proposed a match but Fischer chickened out. Korchnoi claims he called out on Fischers bluffing at that point. Meaning Fischer never intended on playing. He would have stipulated additional requirements. Oh and I remember you being pro Capablanca rematch..... Capablancas demands were very difficult for players to meet when he was world champion, so he only got back on his own medicine. Several players never got the chance and Alekhine struggled greatly to get financing for the match. |
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| Jan-08-25 | | Petrosianic: <The Rocket:> Yeah, I heard that around 1980 Korchnoi offered to play Fischer's rules. Fischer ignored the proposal. If he wanted to stick it to Karpov and the Soviets there was no better time than that. In 1978 a Fischer-Gligoric match under Fischer's rules was supposedly definite. At least Chess Life & Review reported that it was a done deal, and when it fell through, they didn't bother telling us that it had. They just stopped talking about it. In the end Gligoric played a match with Ljubojevic instead, that was actually pretty good. Korchnoi was inconsistent on this, as he was on many things. During the 1974 Candidates he was dead set against Fischer's rules and wanted himself and Karpov to provide a united front against them. Only after he lost the Candidates Final did Korchnoi decide that those rules were okay after all. Sort of. Believe it or not, the Soviet delegation actually tried to ask for a 5-5 tie clause for the 1978 match. At this point Korchnoi went back to thinking it was unfair (as well he should have). Instead they settled an an absolutely minimal champion's advantage in which the Champion would get White in Game 1. But then Karpov wanted to go back to Best of 24, the USCF wanted an Unlimited Match to be played because Charles Kalme had convinced everyone that it would drastically reduce the number of draws. Ed Edmondson made a deal with Karpov in which Karpov would play an unlimited match in exchange for a rematch clause, and the "White in Game 1" thing was forgotten. <Oh and I remember you being pro Capablanca rematch..... Capablancas demands were very difficult for players to meet when he was world champion, so he only got back on his own medicine. Several players never got the chance and Alekhine struggled greatly to get financing for the match.> I did think that Capablanca was a more worthy challenger than Bobolubov, and history has certainly borne that out. As far as Capa getting "his own medicine", all of the top players at London 1922, Alekhine included, had agreed to the London Rules. They were seen as an <improvement> on the old system where the champion had no obligation to meet anybody. Capa never did what Alekhine did, required one specific person to raise a high amount, while lesser challengers could play for less. |
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| Jan-09-25 | | The Rocket: <Capa never did what Alekhine did, required one specific person to raise a high amount, while lesser challengers could play for less.>
He required it of the one person he had faced before, who demanded the same of him. Fair is fair. The fact that Alekhine agreed to the stipulations doesnt mean he cant demand them back. Inflation was not the only reason for why a rematch fell through. Discussions were made and a deal was in the making on at least once occasion. Capablanca declined on that particular occasion. Alexander Alekhine had no reason to fear playing Jose Capablance based on the first match. Alexander at that point matched Capas positional abilities, while retaining the tactical ferocity that made him a name in the chess world. Alekhine and Capablanca had a personal falling out that also accounts for why Alekhine did not want to play him in tournaments for a long time after becoming WC. Capablanca and Alekhine were originally friends and great admirer of each others abilities. As for Fischer vs Karpov, I have read accounts that Fischer greatly respected what Karpov did to Spassky. Nothing concrete, though. There are no direct references to Karpov made by Robert Fischer, other than as someone conspiring with Kasparov. Fischers conspiracy theory made of course no sense given that Kasparov and Karpov despised each other. As for the current status of their relationship, Kasparov spoke of how Karpov is now his friend after nobody visited him in prision except his great rival who brough a chess set. But that was several decades later. Kasparov wrote a very touching article on how everybody he thought was his friend never showed up, but his long time rival did, and this elevated him in the eyes of Kasparov as not just a great chess player, but a man of character. |
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| Jan-09-25 | | Petrosianic: <The Rocket>: <The fact that Alekhine agreed to the stipulations doesnt mean he cant demand them back.> Of course he can demand them back. As before the London Rules, Alekhine could play anyone he liked, or no one at all. But in the end the lack of a rematch hurt his reputation and helped Capa's. But the answer to your original question is that FIDE did in fact change the rules before the 1978 match, you just didn't get to see the effects of it. It was voted as early as the FIDE Congress at Vancouver, in 1971, to change the system for 1975. |
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