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May-24-21 | | fabelhaft: <If we're going to count a draw in regulation as a win, then we should really count 1910, 1951, 1954, 1987 and 2004 as "wins" for the titleholder as well> Well, the title holders in 1910, 1951, 1987 and 2004 didn't win. And few would claim that Carlsen had won the match against Caruana if he had lost it in rapid playoff. Just like Anand in 2012 he had to win the match to keep the title. |
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May-24-21 | | Petrosianic: <Well, the title holders in 1910, 1951, 1987 and 2004 didn't win.> True, but Carlsen didn't win the last two main matches either. He drew the main match, just like in those other years, and then won Rapids playoffs, which were separate events with different rules and time controls. 1984 is another kettle of fish. Karpov not only walked out with the title, but with more points scored. It's hard to think of that as not being a win, except that we're arbitrarily saying it's not. It's not the same as any other win, though, because Karpov only earned another year as champion instead of another 3, and Kasparov got another challenge without re-qualifying. But taking all that into consideration, yeah, it seems that Karpov basically won the match. |
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May-24-21 | | fabelhaft: <won Rapids playoffs, which were separate events> I think you'd find most people considering them part of the same event, called the title match. <we're arbitrarily saying it's not> We're arbitrarily saying that the match was first to six wins, but if we change it to five wins afterwards it gets much less arbitrary, right? :-) |
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May-24-21
 | | Joshka: Karpov was SAVED in the 1984 match, Kasparov had him on the ropes and they stepped in and stopped it. That save benefitted Karpov. Kasparov was just feeling his oats, Karpov was so exhausted he lost considerable weight. They needed to protect their "golden boy" so they got it stopped. All Karpov needed was 1 more win, but was afraid as Kasparov was finally zeroing in on his jugular!! |
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May-24-21 | | Petrosianic: The save may have been intended to help Karpov, but it actually helped Kasparov. Had Karpov fallen apart completely and lost Games 49, 50 and 51, and lost 6-5, nobody would have thought Kasparov was the better player. They'd have thought Karpov was better but fell apart after 6 months, due to exhaustion, illness, age, or whatever. And they'd probably have been right. Only by starting fresh could Kasparov have won a victory that anyone would salute. By good fortune he got to do that in 1985 instead of 1987. |
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May-24-21
 | | harrylime: 1. Fischer
2. Kassparov
3. Karpov |
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May-24-21
 | | HeMateMe: <Had Karpov fallen apart completely and lost Games 49, 50 and 51, and lost 6-5, nobody would have thought Kasparov was the better player.> I would have. Kasparov played passively for 30 straight games to try and exhaust his opponent. Karpov did not have enough skill to punch out one more win. That reflects poorly on Karpov, but also on the match structure in general. The future, 24 game KK matches featured more high quality chess, as the match had a finite amount of games. Let's not anoint Magnus GOAT just yet. Remember, these 12 game mini matches take place ever two years. He gets to play more WC matches than any other long reigning champion. I therefore don't consider number of world ch matches so important, when I look at the MC 12 'gamers. Carlsen didn't blow out anyone, either. His WC matches have all been very close, even decided by tie breakers. Same for the KK matches, all decided by one point. Magnus v. Karpov? The jury is out. Lets see how well Carlsen does in his 30s when it starts to get more difficult to win matches and tournaments. didn't hurt Karpov or Kasparov--they were still murderers to go up against. Let's see how badly Magnus Carlsen wants to keep winning every single game as the Norwegian transitions into his 30s... |
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May-24-21
 | | harrylime: Fischer is the GREATEST chess player EVER ..
Only a fool can't see this ..
Karpov was red carpeted by the Soviets specifically to target Bobby .. Karpov mangled and struggled with an old man in Korchnoi lol lol lol |
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May-24-21
 | | HeMateMe: some people think that Fischer feasted on the aging: Petrosian, Botvinnik, Smyslov and Keres. The only player in his prime he beat was Spassky. And, Fischer <only> waited until he noticed that Spassky, as world champion, was not quite the same player he was as challenger (Spassky had a mediocre tournament record as world champion, didn't win events, was not dominant). When Fischer had to face a younger man <karpov>, he retired. and, Harry Lime is still a <dik>. That never changes. |
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May-24-21 | | fisayo123: This is the full link to the complete interview. Karpov seemed to be in a good mood to grant such a long and extensive interview that touched on many things. https://www.sport-express.ru/chess/... Interesting bit on Fischer. This was a question asked by GM Vladmir Fedoseev. Apparently, they had agreed to a match in 1977 but Fischer turned it down at the last minute. Fedoseev, vice-champion of the world in rapid chess: - If there was a match with Robert Fischer in 1975, how would this change chess and your career? <<- To begin with, the match would become a unique event in the history of not only chess, but also world sports. It is a pity that it failed. Although we negotiated for a long time, we met three times. The last time was in Washington. 1977 year. They actually shook hands there. We went to the Philippine consulate. Campomanes, FIDE President, found a typist who typed everything that was agreed. We have already taken pens to sign the agreement. But at the last moment, Fischer refused.Negotiations were later resumed through Lothar Schmid, who was a referee at the Fischer-Spassky match and since then has maintained a cordial relationship with Bobby. I was still actively involved in chess, Fischer watched - but had not played for a long time ... Finally, I suggested - well, let's play your chess, Fischer's. Also did not respond. I don’t want to claim that he was afraid of me. But some kind of insecurity wandered in him. Too many new things awaited in the confrontation with me. When Fischer went to the title of world champion, he defeated opponents much older. Plus, everyone was rooting for him. Over time, the alignment has changed. I am eight years younger and had a lot of support. And Bobby at that moment also spoiled his relations with the press. He did not play a single official game after the match with Spassky. Yes, Fischer could not imagine life without chess, he continued to study. But at home you cannot simulate a tournament environment, you cannot train the nervous system. This is probably why I felt psychologically ill at ease. He also saw me progressing rapidly. Having become the world champion, he immediately won the largest tournament in Milan. And in the future, he completely dominated for six years, won everything in a row. Only with Korchnoi in Baguio did he suffer a little. In total, I performed at a high level for 25 years. It is a rarity among chess players> > |
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May-24-21
 | | harrylime: Karpov is UNKNOWN now ..
NOBODY knows him
lol lol lol lol |
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May-24-21
 | | Williebob: <Harry>, do you think the top players of today are fools if they don’t worship at the chess altar of The Bob?
Should they be asking themselves during a serious game, “What would Fischer play?”
Your protestations lack substance, man! Of course Bobby is a reasonable contender for GOAT, but nobody can actually prove their point without making concessions. Karpov? He played! He never took 2-3 year breaks, nurturing his record against the top players. He played ‘em all; old and young. It took Garry over 40 games to beat him! Bobby didn’t even have the guts to face Spassky in a Candidates! C’mon! |
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May-24-21
 | | harrylime: <<When Fischer had to face a younger man <karpov>, he retired. and, Harry Lime is still a <dik>. That never changes.> >Bobby came.
Bobby saw
Bobby conquered
Bobby became the Greatest
Fischer had nothing to prove ... |
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May-24-21
 | | HeMateMe: <Bobby didn’t even have the guts to face Spassky in a Candidates! C’mon!> indeed, the paranoid Fischer hid when Spassky was at his prime. Bob DeNiro: "It IS what it IS!" |
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May-24-21 | | TommyChess: who is the most boring chess champion of all time ?? |
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May-24-21 | | TommyChess: <<HeMateMe: <Bobby didn’t even have the guts to face Spassky in a Candidates! C’mon!>
indeed, the paranoid Fischer hid when Spassky was at his prime. Bob DeNiro: "It IS what it IS!"> >I'm SMOKIN you Ooooot.
NURSE x |
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May-24-21
 | | harrylime: Fischer would have owned karpov |
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May-25-21 | | Petrosianic: <harry david chapman> ...And you hate him for not playing and winning that match. We know, Killer, we know. Unfortunately, that won't change anything. |
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May-25-21 | | Petrosianic: <We have already taken pens to sign the agreement. But at the last moment, Fischer refused.> The reason Fischer gave for backing out at the last minute, literally with pen in hand to sign, was a dispute over what to call the match. He decided it should be called The Professional Chess World Championship, or something like that. Of course he knew Karpov wouldn't be allowed to play in a match like that because the official Party Line was that Soviet players weren't professionals, they were amateurs. Officially they all had other jobs, usually "Journalist" (Chess Journalist, of course). One or two of them, like Botvinnik and Taimanov actually did have legitimate Other Jobs, but they were the exceptions. Anyway, Karpov pointed out that he wouldn't be allowed to play in a match with that name. Campomanes told Fischer to just sign the contract and they'd work out a name that both sides could live with later. Fischer said No, and walked out. A year later, Chess Life & Review reported that the Fischer-Gligoric match was a done deal. Gligoric did agree to absolutely everything, but even then Fischer didn't want to play. When the match fell through, CL&R was so disgusted that they didn't even report it or retract their claim that the match was on. They just stopped talking about it entirely. In its place, Gligoric and Ljubojevic played a real slugfest of a match that Ljubo won 5½-4½. A year later, Korchnoi issued his challenge to Fischer, agreed to everything, and got the same result. In hindsight we know Fischer was retired, but people couldn't accept the fact then. That's why people like Harry despise Fischer to this day for not living up to the legend. |
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May-25-21 | | macer75: <Petrosianic: <Carlsen also now has won four undisputed title matches,>
Well... kinda. Actually, he won two matches, drew two matches, and won two Rapids playoffs. If we're going to count a draw in regulation as a win, then we should really count 1910, 1951, 1954, 1987 and 2004 as "wins" for the titleholder as well, for a more direct comparison (i.e. the guy who walks out with the title is the winner). Which would mean the 1984 match should really be considered a win for Karpov as well, giving him three.> I propose a draw in regulation with no playoff counts as half a win, and a draw in regulation followed by a playoff victory counts as 3/4 of a win. |
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May-25-21
 | | HeMateMe: <harrylime: Fischer would have owned karpov
>
Karpov gave Kaspy all he could handle--five extremely close or drawn matches. Don't tell us that Fischer would have beaten Kasparov in a match--you won't get any takers on that. |
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May-25-21 | | Petrosianic: <HeMateMe<: Harry admitted he doesn't even play chess himself. He's judging them solely as Western pop culture icons. And on that count, Fischer clearly outpaces both Karpov and Kasparov. The non-chessplying public doesn't know Karpov at all, and knows Kasparov only slightly from his David Letterman interviews (maybe a few know him from his failed political career). |
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May-25-21 | | Petrosianic: <macer75>: <I propose a draw in regulation with no playoff counts as half a win, and a draw in regulation followed by a playoff victory counts as 3/4 of a win.> I'd keep it even simpler. There are successful title defenses, and unsuccessful ones. It used to be that they only counted the number of times you acquired the title. Hence, Botvinnik was always considered a 3-time champion in his day. Today, with the effort to pad records, they call him a 5-time champion. I saw one site even call Karpov a 7-time champion, by conflating the World Championship with the FIDE Championship (so 1978, 1978, 1981, 1984, 1993, 1996, 1998). Really though, Karpov is a 1-time champion who defended that one win several times. |
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Aug-19-21 | | SkySports: Karpov has recently played a blitz tournament in Moscow: https://www.chess.com/news/view/smy... |
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Aug-25-21
 | | Troller: Karpov is to play a classical tournament in Sweden: https://www.tepesigemanchess.com/ |
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