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Feb-11-04 | | Whitehat1963: Fair enough. I admit I was wrong, but it stands to reason that their's a psychological toll when you lose a match with someone. And Fischer had a tendency to intimidate players. Taimanov, Larsen and Petrosian were never the same. Of course, they were crushed, not just beaten. |
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Feb-11-04 | | ughaibu: There's the matter of age as well, Taimanov and Petrosian had been candidates 20 years before, they cant be expected to remain at the same level forever. Larsen did seem to be badly effected by it, personally I never thought he was world championship level despite his great strength. |
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Feb-11-04 | | Whitehat1963: <Square dance>, you make some good points. I guess, like most American fans, I find Fischer's chess spectacular, often like Morphy's in the sense that he analyzes things that no one else seems to consider. But, yes, you're right, there's no way to be sure. Whereas, I don't see those same things in Karpov's play; he seems so much more careful. On the other hand, that could mean his play is more sound. Hard to say. |
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Feb-11-04 | | Stavrogin: Good post Orcinus. |
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Feb-11-04 | | square dance: from <whitehat1963> <squaredance, you make some good points.> i really have to agree with you on that one. <but yes, you're right,...> of course i am! ok that was just for fun, i hope everyone can tell. i always wanted to do that though. on a serious note i actually agree with most everything you said <whitehat1963>, its just that i have a problem with dogmatic assertions of one players invincibility. i know as well as anyone that it is almost impossible to imagine anyone beating rjf in a match after the way he played from 70-72. the thing is, is that he may not have been the same player in 75 that he had been previously. although the general concensus was that fischer would eat karpov alive back in 75, karpov did so many positive things that many followers of the game put him on an equal footing as fischer. one example for me of a similar situation occured in boxing over the past decade. riddick bowe was heavyweight champion, and was ordered to defend the WBC portion of his title against lennox lewis. it seemed as though every so called boxing expert thought FOR SURE riddick bowe would win easily, but instead he threw that title in a garbage can and lost his other belts in a rematch with evander holyfield. after that loss, riddick bowe went on to have an unspectacular career as a fighter never regaining those titles and lennox lewis just retired last week as the recognized heavyweight champion of the world. im not trying to make a direct parallel to rjf vs. karpov in this story, but the lesson i learned was no matter how much we believe something it doesnt make it true. i mean fischer probably would've beaten karpov in 75 and maybe eveyone was right to think that bowe would've beaten lennox lewis at the time, but we'll just never know. |
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Feb-11-04 | | Whitehat1963: <square dance> And how often do people shock an unsuspecting world? Whether it's Alekhine, Euwe, Oliver McCall or Buster Douglas. Yes, anything can happen. |
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Feb-13-04 | | Stavrogin: How good is Karpov today?
Is it all over or are there still hope to see him in the big leagues making a stand? |
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Feb-13-04 | | Whitehat1963: I think Karpov is still capable of playing great chess and winning the occasional tournament, but the field is too crowded. I doubt he'll ever contend for the title again. But anything can happen. Smyslov certainly made a good run in the mid eighties, I forget what year exactly (I think it was '84). And Lasker, Steinitz and Botvinnik certainly played great chess later in their careers. |
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Feb-13-04 | | Catfriend: He's too old, and he isn't Lasker, I think. He never played great chess after 1995, actually. He's now not in the first 20, according to many rating-lists, I think! I don't think we"ll see him back on the top |
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Feb-13-04 | | ughaibu: I thought we won a match against Kasparov last year. |
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Feb-13-04 | | Catfriend: I thought it wasn't classic chess we played last year. And it isn't great chess. Huzman defeated Gazza so he's a great player? |
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Feb-20-04 | | tomh72000: <How good is Karpov today?> Karpov's appearances in tournaments are now very limited, and he seems to have restricted his openings repetoire to the incredibly drawish Petrov Defence and the Queen's Gambit. Surely there is still life in the "old man" yet though. It would be tragic for him to drop out of tournament chess now. |
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Feb-20-04
 | | lostemperor: "Had I gotten the opportunity to play Fischer (like Kasparov could play me) I would have had a chesslevel beyond anybody's reach" ---Anatoli Karpov (a quote from my head). |
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Feb-20-04 | | ughaibu: Doesn't make any sense, why didn't playing Kasparov keep his level beyond Kasparov's reach? |
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Feb-20-04 | | Stavrogin: good point ughaibu.
a very odd quote which needs explanation! |
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Feb-20-04 | | square dance: it could be argued that karpov was a little past his prime by the time he played kasparov. maybe that is what he is alluding to in that quote. |
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Feb-20-04
 | | lostemperor: What he meant is that he would raise his level by playing the world's strongest to such an extent, like Kasparov raised his level by playing him. |
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Feb-20-04 | | ughaibu: But then Kasparov would still have raised his level when meeting Karpov. |
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Feb-21-04
 | | tamar: Karpov was very near to closing out the 1984 match with Kasparov 6-0, which would have changed chess history. He only had to find a6 in the 31st game, and it would have been over. I think that is the genesis of the quote. For some reason, Karpov lacked the Fischer killer instinct against Kasparov, and he ties that to the missing match with Fischer. |
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Feb-22-04 | | square dance: i think you either have some personality traits or you dont. korchnoi gave karpov good matches too and he had trouble closing him out in one match so i just think this may be wishful thinking. a fischer karpov match would have been chess at its zenith up to that point in history. it is quite likely,IMO, that they would have played more than one match so it could have been a great rivalry like kaspy/karpov. |
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Feb-22-04 | | steven18: When was the last time Karpov played in a high category tournament(Linares, Wijk ann zee etc)? I don't think it was in this century... |
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Feb-22-04
 | | tamar: <When was the last time Karpov played in a high category tournament(Linares, Wijk ann zee etc)?> Wijk aan Zee 2003. Tied for 11th with Ponomariov. |
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Feb-22-04 | | henrilin: <For some reason, Karpov lacked the Fischer killer instinct against Kasparov, and he ties that to the missing match with Fischer.> It may be so that Karpov missed some killing instinct because he didn´t play Fischer, but on the other hand Karpov could have been crushed as Taimanov, Larsen and Petro. None of them recovered after 1971 in my opinion.
Some interesting facts about a match Fischer-Karpov 1975: Fischers record 70-72 (including his match with Spassky) was remarkable in all senses.
W: +42 =15 -2; B: +32 =22 -4
Karpovs record 73-75 was also remarkable, but in another sense.
W: +45 =43 -2; B: +22 =59 -3
So Karpov had a much "worse" performance, especially with black - but, on the other hand, he didn´t lose more than five games so his losses were fewer than Fischers. It must be said that nobody could match Karpov in performance 73-75. Kortschnoj comes closest but not really near in fact. It looks like advantage Fischer if you comparae their records. On the other hand Karpov didn´t lose many games and the question is if Fischer could have found a way to break his defences. We will never know. |
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Feb-24-04 | | OneBadDog: I think that if Fischer had chosen to play Karpov and had beaten him in '75, Chess would have become a phenominally popular game. Who knows, maybe GM's could actually have made a decent living at Chess. |
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Feb-24-04 | | rafaelluiz: I agree with OneBadDog. The chessworld
lost a chance :) |
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