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| Nov-05-12 | | jancotianno: <csmath> i totally agree with you giri will only ever be a strong gm in my view as well. |
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Nov-05-12
 | | perfidious: < csmath: ....I do not see anything in Giri's games that indicates particularly gifted player.... Yes he is young and yes he is a strong GM but that is all he'll ever be, in my view.> < jancotianno: <csmath> i totally agree with you giri will only ever be a strong gm in my view as well.> Poor kid.
The young Giri might as well fold up his tent now and retire to the country, for the experts have consigned him to his fate at the age of eighteen. |
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| Nov-05-12 | | dx9293: <perfidious>
It sounds harsh, but Giri is often talked up as some kind of world-championship contender, which I (and others) don't feel is warranted. That doesn't mean he can't prove us wrong or, even if he doesn't, have a very good career earning good money and having a nice lifestyle. |
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| Nov-05-12 | | Jim Bartle: I don't think Shams was trying to present Giri as some super-GM or future world champion, just as a typical young and active 2700-rated player. His point, using the Kasparov comment, seems to be that a highly motivated and energetic player of today would defeat a not-so-motivated and less energetic Karpov. |
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Nov-05-12
 | | tamar: My surprise was that Karpov declined so much after 1997 or so. I thought he would be like Steinitz, and be just warming up at age 46. Giri impressed me with his effortless rise, but the mysterious factor of motivation seems to have left him, perhaps temporarily. A Karpov Giri match might be interesting if it could be organized. |
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| Nov-05-12 | | achieve: Giri <does> have that extra something special, as was illustrated when a few years ago he was turning heads in Wijk aan Zee when the Big Guys from group A kept walking to his board to see what the buzz was about, and smilingly observed his effortless technique in action. But Giri is indeed having some motivational issues, determination seems oddly lacking. Doesn't seem to have the guts and courage, the fealessness, that you need and ought to have at his age, the ambition.... Perhaps things have been coming too easy to him. He may have to get used to that silly thing called "weight of expectation." Perhaps he will never be able to, but, if he does, Giri is "right up there." Top-5-up-there, to be more precise. |
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| Nov-05-12 | | Everett: <Nov-05-12 Lambda: I think working on physical fitness would be defined as part of "working on chess".> Absolutely! And this is why Karpov literally fell off a cliff from 1997-2000 and beyond: Not just lazy at the board, I say, but also focused on business, big oil, financing, etc. Seemed to basically become a "fat cat." And BTW, it is not that Karpov had terrible stamina, especially when young. It just looks that way because both Korchnoi and Kasparov were relentless, and the matches were unreasonably long. However, Karpov started playing more slowly and losing in the late tourney rounds in the late 80's. His narrow loss in the 88-89 World Cup came about because of a couple of horrendous rounds at the end of tourneys. As far as talent goes, and his natural inclination toward restriction and domination, with glacial patience, his game is very special and different, and I find myself very lucky to be able to play through them. BTW, I was so happy to see him play an Exchange Grunfeld vs Ivanchuk. A real pleasure to see him there again. |
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Nov-06-12
 | | Troller: Very good to see Tolya on top again. Of course, he was one of the strongest rapid players when top rapid tournaments became more common during the 1990's; more intuition, less calculation becomes him well in his senior years. As for Giri, he does not seem to be hungry enough to be a real WC contender right now. But a 18-year-old university wunderkind fluent in a handful of languages - why would he devote his life to chess? I can certainly understand if he decides to see chess more as a pastime than a full-time employment. |
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| Nov-06-12 | | Shams: <Troller> <But a 18-year-old university wunderkind fluent in a handful of languages - why would he devote his life to chess?> Also, have you seen who Giri is dating? Board games would be a distant second for me. -- A word on my bold comment below, that Giri would crush Karpov "regardless of how hard Anatoly worked". I regret inclusion of that last phrase. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Karpov could rediscover some fire in the belly and whip himself into late-in-life shape. He could revamp his diet, hire a personal trainer, do yoga, swim, hike, and rededicate himself to chess. It's not going to happen, but it could. And if it were to happen, I could see Karpov being competitive, in spurts at least, with the bottom half of the 2700 group. I hope people don't get the idea I'm dismissive of the twelfth world champion's ability. And hey, he just won quite a nice tournament victory. Perhaps the rapid time control suits him best now. |
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| Nov-06-12 | | achieve: <Also, have you seen who Giri is dating?> Not until just now, and she looks almost <too> beautiful... A vision! http://www.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=... <Board games would be a distant second for me.> Almost cryptic. ;p Giri must be doing something right after all. ;) |
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Nov-06-12
 | | alexmagnus: From the bio: <In 1999 FIDE changed the rules, deciding that the World Champion would be determined by an annual knockout tournament, and Karpov retired from championship competition.> Karpov himself (in a book which came out in late 1999!) says the format was not the reason why he didn't play - the timing was. He asked Ilyumzhinov to push the tournament to a later moment in time, to give him time to prepare, Ilyumzhinov refused. |
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Nov-06-12
| | perfidious: < Everett: ....Karpov started playing more slowly and losing in the late tourney rounds in the late 80's. His narrow loss in the 88-89 World Cup came about because of a couple of horrendous rounds at the end of tourneys....> See my kibitz to Karpov vs Salov, 1989 to place this in context. |
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| Nov-06-12 | | drnooo: mmm...never quite occurred to me and it's a very far out hypothesis, but
could in the back of his head, or even farther to the front, he speculated, if your unconscious can speculate, that maybe you should ask for a long long, heh heh, very long match and wear the bastard out. He almost had to be privy to the notion that Karpov folded in the stretch. this hardly negates my own notion that Fischer himself was already so far gone that...well, nothing was going to help him,
but it did occur just now: In a long match, without any rest stops, good ones anyway, like a week at a shot, Karpov's caravan would certainly have lost its wheels long before Fischer's. If anything can be said of him, Fischer NEVER lacked stamina.
and since his right hand never knew what his left was doing, well, it's just one more penny to throw into the stupid Fischer cookie jar. |
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| Nov-06-12 | | nummerzwei: <Troller: As for Giri, he does not seem to be hungry enough to be a real WC contender right now. But a 18-year-old university wunderkind> I'm unsure as to what makes Giri a 'university wunderkind'. He would appear not to be attending university yet. As far as Tolya is concerned, it would be great if he attempted a comeback and, yes, I think 2700 might be doable. |
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| Nov-06-12 | | maelith: <tamar: My surprise was that Karpov declined so much after 1997 or so. I thought he would be like Steinitz, and be just warming up at age 46. Giri impressed me with his effortless rise, but the mysterious factor of motivation seems to have left him, perhaps temporarily.> Anand actually commented in 1997 that Karpov does not work as hard compare before,as a result he is not an elite player anymore, he is just an ordinary tournament player. |
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| Nov-06-12 | | Everett: <In a long match, without any rest stops, good ones anyway, like a week at a shot, Karpov's caravan would certainly have lost its wheels long before Fischer's. If anything can be said of him, Fischer NEVER lacked stamina.> C'mon, seriously... Fischer could barely put together two years of chess playing as an adult before bailing. Fischer actually lacked emotional stamina, and was quite lucky (luckier than people imagine) that his rise to the top at the end of his career was shortened by one major event (remember the Benko gift). Too many events, or too many games, no matter how well he was doing, and he began whimpering. If Fischer felt he could win, and he would prepare himself for the '75 match, he would have played, but he either didn't feel he could win, or he felt that he was not able to prepare to win, to sit at the board and still create. Likely the latter, as his "chess is played out" statements show. The fact is, chess was played out for him, but not for others willing to fight. Which is all fine, he's one of the greatest players ever. But let's not create some myth about the stamina of a player who was willing to quit even while ahead, even while he got what he wanted in match play for the candidates. |
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| Nov-06-12 | | Everett: Seirawan mentioned trying to get back to 2700 a year ago, but a couple of kicks to the stomach via poor tourneys (the latest being the US championships) seems to have dampened his ardor. |
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Nov-07-12
| | Troller: <I'm unsure as to what makes Giri a 'university wunderkind'. He would appear not to be attending university yet.> You're probably right - he is attending what is called a 'college', but it looks more like a high school than a university. I highly doubt Karpov would invest the time and effort needed to reenter the elite. Even if he did, he would not be near the place he used to be, in the top 2; that must be kind of discouraging. |
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| Nov-08-12 | | tzar: In my opinion there is no clear proof of Kasparov superiority over Karpov...Karpov in any reasonable format (i.e. 24 games) would have won the 1984 match easily...only the fact that he was exhausted in the end of the match allowed Kasparov end alive and force a return match...and according to other GMs who have played WC matches, in 85 and 86...Karpov resented from this efford... |
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| Nov-08-12 | | tzar: Before 85, Karpov was still better...and in 85 forces equalled and Kasparov won the matches as he could have lost them...Karpov was a bit unlucky in most of them and Kasparov had a better team of seconds, even if many people try to put it the other way round... |
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| Nov-08-12 | | tzar: On the other hand, I don't understand how many people consider Karpov as the beneficiary of all privileges of the Soviet machine and Kasparov a fighter for democracy. Kasparov took advantage of the regime as much as Karpov, learned at the Botvinik school, played representing the USSR in many events, travelled abroad to tournements and nobody pressured him to lose against Karpov in the WC...and Karpov's behaviour as a sportsman has always been much better than Kasparov's...his way of accepting defeat without excuses and always shaking hands with an opponent who had spoken very badly about him tells many things about his ethics and conception of the sport... |
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| Nov-08-12 | | Jambow: <It sounds harsh, but Giri is often talked up as some kind of world-championship contender, which I (and others) don't feel is warranted.> Nah not harsh just your take, I actually thought one to two years ago that Giri and Caruana would be in opposite places about now. |
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| Nov-15-12 | | Wyatt Gwyon: So how is it that Karpov and Fischer never met in tournament play in the late 60s? |
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Nov-16-12
 | | HeMateMe: Well, the profile here says Karpov became a GM in '70. At that time there were probably russians ranked ahead of Tolya, people like korchnoi, Petrosian, Spassky--I think the USSR generally sent their boys to western events in pairs. Karpov wasn't in the top group just yet. No Dairy Queen or Macys for Karpov till a few years later. |
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| Nov-16-12 | | ozmikey: Karpov's first major overseas event was Caracas in 1970, where he went with Leonid Stein as the "senior" GM. By that stage Fischer's appearances in international tournaments were comparatively few. I think the Russians were fairly careful about exposing their younger players, even the very talented ones, to top international events at too young an age. True, Kasparov played at Banja Luka in 1979 in a tough GM field, but then he was a pretty exceptional talent... |
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