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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 132 OF 132 ·
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| Apr-23-08 |
| sitzkrieg: < I have Raymond Keene's book of the match ('The Battle of Baguio') which is not heavy with analysis but explains just enough to get a feel for the games.>
Is keen as "objective" as usual in that particular book? |
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| Apr-23-08 |
| Riverbeast: <sitzkrieg> Sorry I got it wrong (for some reason I always think of Raymond Keene when it's a British chess writer). Actually the book was written by Hartston. |
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Apr-23-08
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| positionalgenius: <MD wilson> nice post. Yes karpov and fischer understood the game at a deeper level. |
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Apr-23-08
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| Ziggurat: <Korchnoi was a concrete calculator and would try to find the best lines with brute force, whereas Fischer and Karpov were more intuitive and had a greater understanding of the subtleties of chess> I suppose this is what Spassky meant when he joked that Korchnoi's only weakness was that he "had no chess talent", see http://www.kevinspraggett.com/humou... |
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| Apr-23-08 |
| Riverbeast: I'm assuming Spassky really was joking....I think Korchnoi's style was quite original and creative. Botvinnik once said Karpov had "no understanding of chess". and he wasn't joking either (though clearly he was wrong) |
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Apr-23-08
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| brankat: <Riverbeast> Actually, I have come to believe that Botvinnik's remark about Karpov could be viewed along the same lines as the one relating to Capablanca: "Chess was his mother tongue". No need for "understanding", it comes to You naturally. Relatively speaking. Of course, in the above case Botvinnik meant something different, and was wrong. One of the very rare times he was wrong about anything. I think, Karpov has had both: an "in-born" capacity of a "mother tongue" and a "deep understanding" based on study and practice. All great masters have displayed both traits. |
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Apr-23-08
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| chancho: This one is a doozy:
<"In short, we can see Karpov as an exploiter of other people’s ideas. His ability to use these ideas is not at issue, but he himself is about as fertile as a woman who has been sterilized."> |
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Apr-23-08
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| KingG: I have the impression that Botvinnik placed too much importance on opening preparation, and that's what he was talking about when it comes to creativity. |
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Apr-24-08
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| Ziggurat: <chancho> Who wrote that? It's a rather awkward analogy which brings to mind an old line from Black Adder (I think?): "I'm as excited as ... a very excited man." |
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| Apr-24-08 |
| Petrosianic: <This is why I think Fischer would have beaten Karpov in 1975 and 1978.> There's no ultimate answer. I think what you're saying is that the Fischer of 1972 would have beaten Karpov in 1978. What the Fischer of 1978 would have done, nobody has a clue. It's true that Karpov looked very vulnerable in that match. Korchnoi beat him 5 games, and let him off the hook in several more. If he played that way against the Fischer of 1972, he'd quite probably have gone down in flames. On the other hand, he had looked invincible in the 3 years before that, and continued looking that way for several years afterwards. I don't think the 1981 result was so much a result of Karpov improving as it was of Karpov bringing his normal game, and Korchnoi declining. He was 50 years old in 1981, and time does eventually catch up. |
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Apr-25-08
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| chancho: <Ziggurat> It was Botvinnik. |
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| Apr-28-08 |
| humangraymatter: <chancho: <Ziggurat> It was Botvinnik.>Botvinnik was wrong.Karpov's play is highly creative I think and I get much pleasure when watching his games.The point is that Karpov's style is very original and other players could not imitate him.But this does not make him infertile.He is more creative than Botvinnik himself I think |
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Apr-28-08
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| keypusher: <chancho: <Ziggurat> It was Botvinnik.> Do you know when he said it? |
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Apr-28-08
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| chancho: <keypusher> it was from a Botvinnik interview in 1980, according to User: seeminor |
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Apr-28-08
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| keypusher: <chancho: <keypusher> it was from a Botvinnik interview in 1980, according to User: seeminor> Hmm, interesting. Amazing that Botvinnik would say such a thing in 1980 in an interview. I'll have to try to run that quote down some day. |
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| Apr-28-08 |
| Petrosianic: <Amazing that Botvinnik would say such a thing in 1980 in an interview.> Yes, although Botvinnik did have a reputation of being very critical of all his successors. By critical, I don't mean that he dissed them necessarily, but he did have strong opinions about what all of them were doing wrong. |
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Apr-28-08
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| chancho: <keypusher> in page 10 of this very thread <seeminor> posted this in 2004: <seeminor>: <Here in an exerpt from an interview Botvinnik did in 1980. It is quite revealing as to what he thought of Karpov. "Doubtless, Karpov is a talented and strong practical chess player. He is very rational and he knows to economically use his playing potential throughout a long tournament. In general, he tries to make as few efforts as possible. When he became World Champion, he made practically all strongest Soviet chess players work for him. If some, even mediocre chess master, was known to be an expert on some chess opening, he was called up to help Karpov. Certainly, all this was kept secret and nobody knew about Karpov’s “methods” of chess preparation. In short, Karpov is an exploiter of other chess players’ creative ideas. It goes without saying that his talent permits him to use these ideas, but he, as a chess thinker, is as sterile as a sterile rabbit."> Notice that instead of "a woman who has been sterilized" he says: sterile rabbit. <seeminor> posted a link to this interview, but the link unfortunately no longer works. |
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| Apr-28-08 |
| humangraymatter: <seeminor:Botvinnik :When he became World Champion, he made practically all strongest Soviet chess players work for him> I remember in an old interview Short had said that Kasparov had the most crowded GM army ever.A point we cannot blame him for.And which does not make him sterile.It is important to see that after Fischer won the chess crown the crown became more important because of the coldwar ongoing the world.And it is understandable that Soviets united their powers to strengthen the hand of their best player. |
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Apr-28-08
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| percyblakeney: The original link to that Botvinnik interview, reliable or not, works with the help of some web wizardry: http://web.archive.org/web/20040819... |
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Apr-28-08
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| percyblakeney: Some quotes from the above mentioned alleged Botvinnik interview from 1980: <Frankly speaking, after Steinitz nothing new has been proposed in chess. Alekhine was the first to work seriously on chess and owing to that he made short work of his opponents who were probably equal to him in chess talent> <Do you remember how I defeated Tal, the great genius, when I was already 50? All this happened because Tal never studied chess seriously> <Speaking about today's great researchers, I would mention Korchnoi and the little boy from Baku Garri Kasparov.> <Balashov has no talent. Where the opening theory ends, he is as helpless as a kitten> <Capablanca was a genius! The greatest genius in chess history! But don't think that he did not know anything in chess. He knew as much as he needed to achieve his aims. Believe me: if Capa had appeared on the chess horizon today, he would have taken half a year to learn chess theory and then he would have defeated each and everyone.> |
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Apr-28-08
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| keypusher: Thanks, <Percy>!
Not many details re the circumstances of this interview, but it does sound like Botvinnik, doesn't it? |
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Apr-28-08
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| chancho: http://www.mitchberman.com/Chess--L... |
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Apr-28-08
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| keypusher: <Chancho>
Thanks, great article.
But saying Karpov <might have stepped out of a Socialist Realist poster>? I don't know of many 120-pound heroes in the canon of socialist realism. :-) http://www.davno.ru/posters/collect... |
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| May-11-08 |
| The Rocket: Karpov often played the steinitz/Karpov variation of the Carro-kann, What advantages does that variation have compared to the classical where your problem with the queen bishop is solved. |
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May-11-08
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| Karpova: <The Rocket>
The "Steinitz-Variation" (often called "Petrosian-Smyslov system") of the Caro Kann delays both the development of the Ng8 and the Bc8 to avoid damage to the pawn structure (there are also systems like 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Nxf6+ and now either 5...exf6 or 5...gxf6 - both are not to dismiss easily but Karpov doesn't like them due to resulting damage to Black's pawn formation). So the Nf8 doesn't move to avoid the mentioned variations the Bc8 doesn't move to gain time.
The resulting pawn formation in the Steinitz system resembles that one of the classical very much except for one difference:"Steinitz"/"Petrosian-Smyslov"
 click for larger view"Classical"
 click for larger viewThe White h-pawn didn't move - the white h5-pawn in the "Classical" system becomes decisive in the endgame - he is either a liability due to the lack of support or hems in Black's king's side. In the opening, the dynamics of the pieces are more important and as long as Black avoids a knight sac on e6 (that's why he plays h6 to get rid of a white knight on g5) Black gets a solid position. Karpov used it and was satisfied with the results and therefore played it very often. |
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