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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 38 OF 38 ·
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Oct-13-09
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| parisattack: I do know of Hilbert and have some things by him. I believe small run publications but hardback, top quality? I think through Caissa, perhaps, with Brandreth. I believe there are seven volumes in the Young series. Strangely not too pricey although a couple of them a bit hard to locate. |
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| Oct-13-09 |
| TheFocus: <parisattack> Yes, Hilbert publishes through Caissa's Editions (Brandreth). |
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| Oct-13-09 |
| Everett: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akiba_...
This reminds me of a friend of mine in grade school who had an Italian last name, but pronounced it in an American English manner. A teacher insisted using the Italian pronunciation in class until the mother had to come in and tell her to stop it. BTW, I wonder if all of you trashing books have either written your own or actually taken the time to read fully any of the books you trash. Everyone likes to trash Schiller's books, and it seems everyone will repeat this without looking at them closely or seeing the recent ones published. The slandering of his name has gotten so bad here that he could produce a "perfect" book and it would go completely unnoticed. |
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| Oct-13-09 |
| RookFile: <Plato: Agreed. His books were churned out quickly for profit but are sorely lacking in quality. The infamous "Schiller database dump." > Plato! Where have you been?? |
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Oct-13-09
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| parisattack: <BTW, I wonder if all of you trashing books have either written your own or actually taken the time to read fully any of the books you trash. Everyone likes to trash Schiller's books, and it seems everyone will repeat this without looking at them closely or seeing the recent ones published. The slandering of his name has gotten so bad here that he could produce a "perfect" book and it would go completely unnoticed.> I have written chess books and other topics for self-publication and major publishers. I can tell you it is REAL work - and they can't all come out prize winners. I do admit some of IM Schiller's works could only be described as 'gosh-awful' but several are quite good. As you say, write a book, see what is involved. Deal with the Development Editors who think they are co-authors but know nothing about the subject, the Production Editors who want every diagram just-so and the fine comp editors who are anal beyond anything you can imagine. |
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| Oct-13-09 |
| Plato: Ah <RookFile>, my old frenemy! How the heck are ya? I just took a long break from CG since it was taking up too much of my time :) <parisatack> What's an example of one of Schiller's books that's quite good? |
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Oct-13-09
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| parisattack: Hypermodern Opening Repertoire for White is very good. Many of his early opening monographs are excellent - New Ideas in The Rat, Modern Defense Averbakh Lines, How to Play the Chigorin Defense in the Queen's Gambit Declined. I have 15-20 of the opening monographs and like them. |
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Oct-14-09
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| vonKrolock: The spelling <Akiba> came from early sources, like for instance the book from Karlsbad 1907 (Marco). An autographed photo is displayed there, but he signed just <A. Rubinstein>, in a small, round and elegant caligraphic style. Marco probably was following the official registers furnished to the tournament comité, why he would change himself something about this detail, if was not under request? It would be interesting to search also in contemporary Russian sources to find the <czarist> spelling too...
The from <Akiba> was being used even before Rubistein's rise to fame, for instance in the 'problemistic shortstory' <"Ben Akiba oder Original und Nachbildung">, from 1895, in which Paul Schellenberg relates an hipothetical encounter with Anderssen in paradise |
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Oct-14-09
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| vonKrolock: ... It's being suggested to switch to <Akiva> for coherence, and even, say, pride !? - But for this it would be interesting to search for the way Rubinstein himself was spelling his own name! |
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Oct-14-09
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| Phony Benoni: <vonKrolock> Following Rubinstein's own practice in spelling his name is the right idea, but finding out what he did is another matter. We've had some mention of "A. Rubinstein", and <The Focus> mentioned earlier seeing "Akiwa". What might also be good to know is why Donaldson/Minev switched between editions of their book. I'd expect a change that flies against 100 years of practice would rate a mention in the book. |
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| Oct-14-09 |
| FHBradley: Here's one specimen of Rubinstein's autograph; but it's only "A. Rubinstein": http://www.evrado.com/chess/autogra... |
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| Oct-14-09 |
| RookFile: Try to focus, Plato! |
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| Oct-14-09 |
| Ziggurat: Glad to see you two are getting along! |
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| Oct-14-09 |
| TheFocus: <vonKrolock> Thank you. "Akiwa" is the Polish spelling and how Rubinstein signed his passport as seen in Donaldson's book, and "Akiba" is the transliteration in English, but Rubinstein would not have signed his name ever in this way. "Akiva" is the Jewish spelling based on pronunciation. Translation between languages often changes the spelling as one language may not have the specific letter in question. Regardless of the different spellings, it is still pronounced as "Akiva" in all three. |
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Oct-14-09
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| pawn to QB4: I'm afraid not, TheFocus. It seems clear enough that "Akiwa" is not just "the Polish spelling" as opposed to "Akiva" the "Jewish spelling": it's the way you spell the name if you happen to be a Polish Jew, as Rubinstein was. Nor is "Akiba" the obvious "transliteration in English", because the Polish "w" is equivalent to English "v" not "b". So where did the version "Akiba" come from? Clearly not, as your Rabbi thinks, from the ignorance of those around Rubinstein: many of the top masters of that time, and no doubt many of his other friends, were Jewish themselves and wouldn't have called him that as an error. My guess, for what it's worth, is that when he did English speakers the courtesy of spelling his name in our alphabet, as opposed to the Polish one, he went for "Akiba" - pronounced, as you say, "Akiva". Why? I don't know: but it's often seen as the spelling for the famous Rabbi, presumably a household name to Rubinstein; possibly he was also used to seeing his name in Cyrillic alphabet with its equivalent for "v" looking like "B". |
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| Oct-14-09 |
| TheFocus: I took my explanation from Donaldson's book regarding the three different ways of spelling. A linguist may offer a better explanation than me as to transliteration. Another example would be "Reuben" pronounced as "Reuven" by Jews but as Reuben by English speakers. I do know some Jews who pronounce their name as Reuben when around English speakers, but use Reuven at home. Another example is the spelling of Dawid Janowsky, another Pole. Still pronounced as David. Avraham or Avram is a other name given for Abraham, but Jews wouldn't say "Abraham". I had a longer explanation in my last post, but it began to sound confusing, so I shortened it. Irregardless, Jews don't write Akiba; I have never seen it done. |
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Oct-14-09
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| pawn to QB4: Fair enough, but here's a noted Masorti Rabbi writing "Akiba" - if my link works: http://www.myjewishlearning.com/tex... ; and though one could certainly imagine Rubinstein being too shy and polite to raise a hand when people misspelled his name, it would seem odd that, if this was an error, it occurred in an era where the great players included Lasker, Reti, Tarrasch, Spielmann, and as far as I know they all went along with it. The form "Akiba" seems to have been used for Rubinstein since his own day and by Jewish masters and writers as much as the rest. |
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Oct-15-09
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| vonKrolock: <Pawn to QB4> So we arrive to the 'never say never' point... <TheFocus> 'Akiwa' makes sense with the background of Polish Authority's Restoration after 1918, as transliteration it's however problematic, needs (for English, Latin, and a lot of 'etc') an explanation that W sounds like V... Just 3 possibilities ?! What about <Akivah>, this form is found too... <עקיבא> = Akiva - Yes, this would be of course the ideal if Akiba had to be discarded <?!> Even so, the simplest a transliteration, best - otherwise we would still adhere, for instance, to things like <Tourguenièff> instead of the simple <Turgenev>, or as the chess world still wants, Ivan Turgenyev |
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Oct-16-09
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| pawn to QB4: Hi vonKrolock, thanks for your research. At least anyone who's read these pages won't make the usual mistake of pronouncing the name with a "b". It would still be useful to the discussion to find out if Rubinstein ever wrote "Akiba" or "Akiva" for the Western audience. If he'd asked my advice I'd have said to go with the latter: it's common Western practice and they'll all say your name correctly. But the former obviously occurs, may well have been used by the master himself, and I suspect that if Akiba is a usurper it's probably too late to drive him from the throne of Rubinstein. Like finding the authentic spelling of "Shakespeare", you're up against established usage. |
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Oct-16-09
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| Bridgeburner: Here's an obituary of Rubinstein published at http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/sta... This is a translation, but Rubinstein's first name is spelt <Akiba>, and the writer of the obituary is <Akiva Fett>. Here's an line drawing autographed by Rubinstein but alas he signs only his surname.\: http://www.evrado.com/chess/autogra... Wish I could help more, but that's all I have. |
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Oct-16-09
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| pawn to QB4: Thanks; for me your contribution is decisive: "Akiba" is obviously a valid, if minority, spelling, and one wouldn't expect to see Marc Chagall and Jeanne Tripplehorn corrected to Mark and Jean because those are more usual forms. But, interesting as this discussion has been, I have to leave it. My wife has discovered it. She has no awareness that Akiba Rubinstein is an artist whose work is fit for any national gallery. She is doubled up with laughter at what she sees as a debate about a single letter, evidence for her of the sadness of chess players. |
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Oct-16-09
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| Bridgeburner: I'd say she's dead right. :) |
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| Oct-16-09 |
| TheFocus: <pawn to QB4> That is funny. On to better things!! Crazy chess players! |
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Oct-16-09
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| pawn to QB4: Cheers TheFocus. You share a name with a great chessplayer. By the way, I've seen his surname spelled Rubinsztein...on second thoughts, maybe better not! |
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Oct-17-09
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| vonKrolock: <Rubinsztein> A case in point... He's called somewhere <"Stawiski most illustrious son">, but the Polish spelling is seen only, if eventually, in Polish sources. A related discussion about different spellings of names is seen in L R Eisenberg page - I would add only that that in parts of the Ukraine conquered by Poland in 1920, the Czarist program in schools until 1917 included Russian Langage, Ukrainian Culture, Foreign Langages (chosen from German, French and English), and optionally ancient Hebrew, Greek or Latin - therefore Polish came as a big novelty: and suddenly everyone had Polish documents and spelling for their names! (Well, everyone knows too that this finished in 1939 and how the end was...) Of course, Rubins<z>tein's city and region were not in that situation, they surelly belonged historically, and belongs always to Poland... |
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